going to Heaven ?

[bambam]

beowulf,bambam
I enjoy the argument. I also enjoy giving hard Truths. A get together for beer, coffee, tea. I would enjoy greatly. Yes plenty of topics to talk about and argue over. Inteligent conversations with a good well thought out arguement is worth its weight in gold.
Finris

Amen to that Finris. One last thing I'd like to say, and this is more of a request than any further discussion or " argument " about this topic.

First I need to lay some groundwork. I truly believe that most prophecies in both the Old and New testaments of the Bible have been fulfilled, except for one, or maybe 2 depending on how you interpret various passages in the Bible. Notwithstanding the disagreement on timing, I believe the last major prophecy to be fulfilled is the so-called " Rapture " . Now I know the word " rapture " does not appear anywhere in the Bible, Old or New Testament, but it is surely discussed multiple times . I Corinthians 15 one example;



51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I believe that in the near future, Jesus will return in the clouds and call home His Church. A trump will sound, and the dead in Christ ( those dead believers who are saved ) will rise to meet him in the clouds, then the living in Christ , the believers who are living will rise into the clouds to be with Jesus.

This will usher in the tribulation which is the subject of the book of Revelation , and there will be 7 years of hell on earth.

Obviously , you can dispute this as many have, but my point is not to start another dispute, but to make a simple request.

When this happens, when millions of people suddenly disappear from the face of the earth, in a blink of an eye, I simply ask that you reconsider your stance on the New Testament, and your belief that Jesus is not the son of God . You will have 7 years from the that point to decide , but those 7 years will surely give you a glimpse of what hell is like.

Enough said, enjoyed the discussion , be well my friend. God bless.

[beowulf]

beowulf,bambam
I enjoy the argument. I also enjoy giving hard Truths. A get together for beer, coffee, tea. I would enjoy greatly. Yes plenty of topics to talk about and argue over. Inteligent conversations with a good well thought out arguement is worth its weight in gold.
Finris

Absolutely!! However, I much prefer the term "a good, spirited discussion" rather than argument. An "argument" can too often lead to hard feelings...or worse. But a good discussion amoung friends can, although they may not agree on everything, be some wonderful fellowship and enjoyment. And...notice I said ALMOST hopeless. No one is ever without hope. I was just telling my yuoungest daughter tonight about our discussions. I told her I thought you are a fine man, but one hard headed son of a gun.

[finris]

Bambam Sir,

You are correct in saying that Rapture isn't in any of the books. From what I have read and understnd. Rapture was prophesied by a girl who was about 16 years old in England, in the 1880's? Or some point in time. I could have my times wrong. My understanding is that is the person and about that time.

My problem with this is. Prophets are no longer, atleast the true prophets. My version of a true prophet is one who has ridden the Markava. If you will recall Elijah rode the Markava when he was leaving. Elijah was such a high level prophet that he warranted getting to ride the Markava.

A True Prophet would place an oath upon his soul to return to his body. Then he would place himself or herself into a Prophetic position and place them selves into a type of Meditation. The prophet would rise up to the level of Heaven and he or she would have to know the names of the angles that guard the doors for the different levels. So upon reaching the 7th level of heaven they would call the ark angles by name in order and enter the 7th level. The prophet would ride the Markava down to the “Throne” . The prophet at that time would have the prophesies.

So, Bambam your question is an Honest one. Having read some of what your talking about. What I have read and understand about it.

My question to you is. Do you recall when the “Church” walked away from the the “Church's”? Again from what I have read and understand mind you. From what I have seen and understand they walk away due to the fact that they find themselves in the post Rapture period. They didn't get flown up to heaven and they are having to live through the tribulations.

I could be wrong in my understanding. Yet, I see how G-D has aloud the Jewish Nation live through the punishment they brought onto themselves...Why do you think that you are different?

Have no fear Dear Sir. We are living though those times now. More than likely we will get to see the coming. The End of Days are upon us.

Where are we having this get together? I like coffee and tea and I have have a beer from time to time! I must admit I like sweet wins better than beer.

[finris]

Absolutely!! However, I much prefer the term "a good, spirited discussion" rather than argument. An "argument" can too often lead to hard feelings...or worse. But a good discussion amoung friends can, although they may not agree on everything, be some wonderful fellowship and enjoyment. And...notice I said ALMOST hopeless. No one is ever without hope. I was just telling my yuoungest daughter tonight about our discussions. I told her I thought you are a fine man, but one hard headed son of a gun.

Dear Sir,
You are correct. My father was a very well educated man. I saw him and others like him yell and holler at each other. When luch time came. The conversation was were are we going to lunch today? Work is Work, and true proffesionals can argue about the job and go and be best friends outside of work.

I believe the term you were looking for Sir was "Stiff Necked"!!!
LOL, come on now you know thems the words you were looking for...

I enjoy hearing another opinion. Why do you ask? It teaches you where the holes are in your thought patterns. If you truelly wish to have an unbeatable argument, you need those who can see were your thought patterns are weak.

I do enjoy good discussions. Also enjoy hearing others thoughts so I can learn from my own mistakes.

Be Well Sir,

[orangetom1999]

I am not under the Olde Testament Bondage..Ishmael..

I am also not under the Noahide Laws.....also Ishmael.

I am under the Constitution of the United States. The Noahide Laws also would not be separation of church and state......

I do not need a genius to tell me that this is so....


The Hebrews were to do two things...in which they succeeded....in spite of their shortcomings....

They were to keep the Olde Testament.....

And out of a certain line was to come the Messiah...


After that ....it is clear that the nation of Israel was no longer needed....their cause had been fulfilled. And we have the record of what happened via Flavius Josephus.
It is a very very interesting read....


Don't worry ....our leadership today is trying to usher in a new religion of politics based on race, sex, sexual orientation and other such traditions of men...like Trans genderism.

Thinking, educated, disciplined people know that human beings should be more than these indexes which seem to be so important to the devout and zealous religion which is politics today. Particularly as politics seeks to use these important to them indexes to control, herd, and intimidate people into their control.
This is not limited government as outlined by the Founders...but a new religion taking place under the auspices of politics...as a cover..

Be Warned of these Ishmaelites..

This devout and zealous religion of politics is also going to be at enmity with both the Christian and Hebrew religions. Nonetheless....politics too will be Ishmael...bondage...in competition with other religions....and zealously so.

We are going to be learning the width and breadth of what is the word.....Demonism..as it becomes the new preferred and accepted norm...and men will be proud and boast of this Demonism.



Orangetom
Not an Ishmaelite.

[finris]

OT,

I think you have missed many things in your readings of the Only Testament The G-D of the Jewish nation is the G-D of Abraham, Issac, Jacob. No Ismalite G-D's here. Yet those who don't believe in the G-D of the Hebrews most deffenatly might be...

The Jewish nation has many things to do. Yet Ismalite don't seem to grasp it. I might toss in to the pool those who don't believe in the Only Testament.

A question for you since you think you know more than those who live the Old Testament. Why is Elijah required to be here in the end as a witness?

Why is the Messiah required to bring down the Temple in Jerusalem? Well if the Only Testament isn't still part of G-D's Word??? So what your saying is G-D changes his mind and lies??


If you truly knew the word of the G-D of Abraham, Issac and Jacob you would know....

Elijah was a grandson of Aaron. Elijah saw all the miracles that the G-D of Abraham, Issac and Jacob did for the Jewish Nation. He was at Mt. Sinai when the Stone Tablets came down, both times. He was there when all the temple employments were made. He crossed the Jordan River with the Nation of Israel. Elijah fought for the land.

Elijah must look through the generations of these who will work in the Temple. They must have an unbroken lineage from Aaron. Only a true Prophet can do this. Also since he was there for all the temple services. Elijah must teach those who can work in the Temple what to do properly. Obviously this is due to the fact that we have no traditions of working in the Temple. Except from the Oral tradition. You know that thing all you Ismalite all deny.

No the U.S. Government no longer keeps a G-Dly life. They wish to change things away from those who attempted to create a Truly G-Dly nation.

The People of Israel and the Nation of Israel Lives!!! Every Nation that has stood over the Jewish Nation, the Nation of Israel. Where are these Nations now???
They are all gone. Not One of them is a world Power now. The Romans gone. The Greeks gone. The Ottomans gone. England the nation that the sun never set upon. Well now the Sun sets on them. They like all the others are no longer a world power. Why? Well Sir they messed with the People of the G-D of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Everyone has been diminished to nearly nothing. The Nation and the People of Israel Live.

Please don't tell use you don't believe in the G-D of Abraham, Issac and Jacob You now if you say that it makes you an Ismalite...

LOL, know you know I might be pulling your leg just a bit...Then again I might not be.

[91CavGT]

Is it possible to change your mind without telling a lie? Of course it is.


There are some examples of this occurring in the Old Testament. Such as when God was going to destroy the Jews after they made and started worshipping the golden calf while Moses was on Mount Sinai. Does that mean that God lies? Nope. It means He has compassion and listens despite His desires.



I’m not a theologian though. It took me 4 years to read the Old Testament. I believe in Christ, in miracles modern medicine can’t explain, and in the “voice” of God that moves me every day. Just my beliefs, but it sure would be good if everyone experiences the joy I do, so I share His greatness. I’ll also admit to not being perfect and only reading the last page of this thread so I could be out in right field of this discussion!

[orangetom1999]

Finris,

Why is Elijah required to be here in the end as a witness?

God has two witnesses since the end of the nation israel....in 70 AD.....His Word and His Church.....of every kindred and tongue on the earth...

Paul...the Apostle to the Gentiles clears up for us who and what is Ishmael in Galatians Chapter 4..in allegory...which things are an allegory....


But we see this in fact taking place today right in front of us...as they try to bring in their Ishmaelite operating principles over us...



The Noahide laws are not mentioned by that name in the Olde Testament....nor is the Talmud... nor the Kaballah...,.all traditions of men..,


Non Hebrews are supposed to know nothing about these traditions of men and many of our ministers do not cover this material....on purpose..leaving their flocks unarmored....untutored...


Once again...i am not under the Olde Testament bondage...Ishmael.....but I am to know the Olde Testament as my schoolmaster to know what came before..

For I am under Grace and not Law...


But there are those who would seek to put us under Law/Ishmael....and use various sophisticated and almost gnostic means to so do....but it is Law...and not Grace.



91CavGT,

I’m not a theologian though. It took me 4 years to read the Old Testament. I believe in Christ, in miracles modern medicine can’t explain, and in the “voice” of God that moves me every day. Just my beliefs, but it sure would be good if everyone experiences the joy I do, so I share His greatness. I’ll also admit to not being perfect and only reading the last page of this thread so I could be out in right field of this discussion!

You are not out in right field....nor am I a theologian....

Just keep in mind that our Jerusalem is above and the mother of us all ....not here on this earth....and that will clear up a lot for us.'

For the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the same from the Olde Testament unto the New Testament...


Orangetom
Not an Ishmaelite.

[bambam]

Bambam Sir,

You are correct in saying that Rapture isn't in any of the books. From what I have read and understnd. Rapture was prophesied by a girl who was about 16 years old in England, in the 1880's? Or some point in time. I could have my times wrong. My understanding is that is the person and about that time.

My problem with this is. Prophets are no longer, atleast the true prophets. My version of a true prophet is one who has ridden the Markava. If you will recall Elijah rode the Markava when he was leaving. Elijah was such a high level prophet that he warranted getting to ride the Markava.

A True Prophet would place an oath upon his soul to return to his body. Then he would place himself or herself into a Prophetic position and place them selves into a type of Meditation. The prophet would rise up to the level of Heaven and he or she would have to know the names of the angles that guard the doors for the different levels. So upon reaching the 7th level of heaven they would call the ark angles by name in order and enter the 7th level. The prophet would ride the Markava down to the “Throne” . The prophet at that time would have the prophesies.

So, Bambam your question is an Honest one. Having read some of what your talking about. What I have read and understand about it.

My question to you is. Do you recall when the “Church” walked away from the the “Church's”? Again from what I have read and understand mind you. From what I have seen and understand they walk away due to the fact that they find themselves in the post Rapture period. They didn't get flown up to heaven and they are having to live through the tribulations.

I could be wrong in my understanding. Yet, I see how G-D has aloud the Jewish Nation live through the punishment they brought onto themselves...Why do you think that you are different?

Have no fear Dear Sir. We are living though those times now. More than likely we will get to see the coming. The End of Days are upon us.

Where are we having this get together? I like coffee and tea and I have have a beer from time to time! I must admit I like sweet wins better than beer.

Finris, I have read this post several times and in all honesty am not sure exactly what you are asking , maybe I'm just slow or maybe just misinterpreting .

I will however, try and answer, and if I'm off base forgive me.

First , I don't know anything about a 16 year old in the 1880's . The rapture is discussed in the Bible. Not by that name but surely in context.

As far as prophets , there are prophets and there are false prophets. The Bible clearly states there will be false prophets and many will be deceived by them. The anti-Christ being the biggest deceiver of all.

As far as the church is concerned, this I believe is the subject which is most confusing to many people. The " church " in God's eyes, is not a building, or a denomination. It is not Catholic, or Baptist, or Presbyterian, or Methodist, or any other denomination . The " church " is those who have accepted Jesus as their savior, the ones who he will come for in the rapture. Many people who believe in God , but have not accepted Jesus as their savior, will be left behind. The devil himself believes in God , he knows he exists, but will not accept Jesus as savior and will therefore burn in hell.

The " church " , those who have been washed in the blood of Jesus, will leave this earth in the rapture, and then the tribulation will begin. We are not in the tribulation yet, but it is coming soon. Many who are not raptured will be saved during the tribulation, but they will have to endure 7 years of hell on earth.

Do I believe I am better than the Jewish people who brought punishment upon themselves ? Certainly not. I'm a sinner, I deserve punishment , and I brought it upon myself due to my weak human nature. No excuses. Thanks to Jesus , who died for my sins, and yours, and every person who has ever lived, I may suffer here on earth, but I'll have my place in Heaven.

[finris]

bambam,

I think this little articl explains things better than I. Please be reminded I did admit to having dates and such wrong.


https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-very-sho...apture-5928190