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Thread: US, allies prepared to use 'overwhelming force' in North Korea, general say

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    Default US, allies prepared to use 'overwhelming force' in North Korea, general say

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/07...eral-says.html

    The U.S. and its allies are prepared to use “rapid, lethal and overwhelming force,” if necessary, against North Korea, the commander of the U.S. Pacific Air Forces warned Saturday night.

    The statement from Gen. Terrence J. O’Shaughnessy, U.S. Pacific Air Forces commander, came after the militaries of the U.S., South Korea and Japan spent 10 hours conducting bomber-jet drills over the Korean Peninsula.

    The training mission was a response to North Korea’s recent ballistic missile launches and nuclear program, and part of the U.S. regular commitment to defending its allies in the Asia-Pacific region, the general’s statement said.

    “North Korea remains the most urgent threat to regional stability,” O’Shaughnessy said.

    “Diplomacy remains the lead,” he said. “However, we have a responsibility to our allies and our nation to showcase our unwavering commitment while planning for the worst-case scenario.


    “If called upon,” he added, “we are ready to respond with rapid, lethal and overwhelming force at a time and place of our choosing.”

    North Korea conducted test launches of ICBMs on July 3 and July 28, and has claimed that its weapons can now reach the U.S. mainland.

    The country’s recent actions have drawn condemnation from President Trump, and prompted U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to confer with counterparts from South Korea and Japan to develop a response, Fox News has reported.

    Both Trump and Tillerson have criticized China, saying the Beijing government has failed to use its influence to discourage North Korea from developing its nuclear program, Fox News reported.

    On Saturday, two U.S. Air Force B-1B bombers, under the command of U.S. Pacific Air Forces, joined counterparts from the South Korean and Japanese air forces in sequenced bilateral missions.

    According to the Pentagon, the U.S. bombers took off from Andersen Air Force Base in Guam, then flew to Japanese airspace, where they were joined by two Koku Jieitai (Japan Air Self Defense Force) F-2 fighter jets.

    Lt. Gen. Terrence O’Shaughnessy, Deputy Commander of United Nations Command Korea and Deputy Commander of U.S. Forces Korea, speaks during a ceremony commemorating the 62nd anniversary of the Korean War Armistice Agreement that ended the Korean War at the border village of Panmunjom, which has separated the two Koreas since the Korean War, in Paju, South Korea, Monday, July 27, 2015. (AP Photo/Ahn Young-joon, Pool)Expand / Collapse
    Then-Lt. Gen. Terrence O’Shaughnessy speaks in Paju, South Korea, July 27, 2015. (Associated Press)
    The B-1s then flew over the Korean Peninsula, where they were joined by four F-15 fighter jets from the South Korean air force.

    The B-1s then performed a low-pass over Osan Air Base, South Korea, before leaving South Korean airspace and returning to Guam.

    Throughout the approximately 10-hour mission, the air crews practiced intercept and formation functions, enabling them to improve their combined capabilities and strengthening the long-standing military-to-military relationships in the region, the Pentagon said.

    U.S. Pacific Command maintains flexible bomber and fighter capabilities in the Indo-Asia-Pacific theater, retaining the ability to quickly respond to any regional threat in order to defend the U.S. and its allies, the statement said.
    Remember what Einstein said:
    “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

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    I am not impressed with this general speaking out like this but recognize that this is propaganda and saber rattling designed to instill confidence by way of our allies.


    I took the liberty of using Google Earth to take a peek at Anderson AFB on Guam.

    What you will see in the parking areas is four B1B swing wing bombers.

    What I also found of interest there is three U2 reconnaissance aircraft. I found this to be more impressive than the presence of the B1B bombers.
    They are forward deployed.


    The B1B bomber has had a very spotty reputation among thinkers and planners from the beginning. So too has all the swing wing design of aircraft...from the F111 to the B1 bombers to the F14.
    I find it interesting and somewhat telling that they chose to use the B1B here and not the B2.
    There are also B 52s aplenty wherein they have been moved back under the Obama Administration from Diego Garcia to Guam. Ariel Tankers too.


    I also took a look in the deep draft harbor at Piti wherein the Navy has it's ships and submarines. Though there is no way to date how far back the photo was posted there is shown in the harbor 3 Los Angeles class attack submarines...and a submarine tender.

    In like manner to the B1Bs and the U2 aircraft these submarines appear to be forward deployed.



    While I am not concerned so much about North Korea and nuclear weapons...I am concerned that in the status of cocked and locked...someone may prematurely pull the trigger....and perhaps deliberately so to get another war going.

    I do not trust both the left and the right on this. I believe under certain conditions they are both warmongers..people herders...and hide this behind their phony politics and concern for people.

    My .02,

    Orangetom


    Post Script:

    I do like the Japanese adaptation of the F 16 fighter in the form of the F2 with larger wing. I am thinking this gives a bit better range and also maneuverability. These would be two adaptations badly needed by the Japanese being out forward in Asia..and also an island. Long legs or range is definitely needed...so too maneuverability.

    Looking up the F 16 series on wiki..I was not aware until then... that there were so many variants and or adaptations of this aircraft...very impressive.
    This gives much credence to what John Boyd and the members of "The Fighter Mafia" at the Pentagon were trying to tell the USAF about aircraft purchasing many many years ago...during the Vietnam days.
    Last edited by orangetom1999; 07-30-2017 at 06:38 AM.

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    It is amazing that two nuclear weapon countries threaten each other every day. It just can not end well for anyone.

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    Hiwall...

    You do realize that the overall plans, via the deep state, are for this business...long term...to not end well for Americans and the American way of doing things...for The Constitution of the United States??? Yes?? Nuclear or non nuclear!!!


    Thanks,
    Orangetom

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangetom1999 View Post
    .....The B1B bomber has had a very spotty reputation among thinkers and planners from the beginning. So too has all the swing wing design of aircraft...from the F111 to the B1 bombers to the F14.
    I find it interesting and somewhat telling that they chose to use the B1B here and not the B2.
    There are also B 52s aplenty .......
    Well, first, let me say one thing: IMHO there will not ever be another "swing-wing" type military aircraft designed, as we have newer, better technology and designs available. Having said that, The F-111 started out roughly, but the main problem or bugs it had was not with it's variable geometry wings, but with its terrain following radar. It was supposed to be able to fly "nape of the earth" missions, being guided mainly by the radar. But problems arose that the radar was not quit up to par, causing a few early Aaardvarks (F-111 codename) to auger into the ground ....something that truly inconveniences and discourages pilots. This problem was later corrected IIRC.
    The F-14 also had early bugs; its Phoenix Missile system managed to shoot down a few early Tomcats-- namely the self-same one that had just launched the missile. This also pisses off the pilots.
    The B1s development was hampered because Peanut President Carter canceled the program, only to have a subsequent president re-start it. Its a fairly capable platform in all. We have B-52s still around, for sure, and they have their place and have proven very adaptable over the decades, but they are of an even older design and if the B1 is vulnerable, the B-52 is much more vulnerable.
    The swing-wing design was a good answer to the aerodynamic problems that spurred its development in the 1960s and 70s. The downside in the F-14 program was the weight of the operation system that moved and supported the wings. That imposed heavy costs on the plane in terms of maneuverability ....overcome somewhat by the fact the fuselage of the Tomcat itself was an aerodynamic lifting body, its design inspired somewhat by experiments with the Northrop HL-10 and Martin Marietta M2-F3 designs of the late 1960s.
    The F-14s original engines were also a problem as they weren't truly powerful enough or reliable enough for a carrier-based fighter-interceptor. It received better engines later in its operations life. The plane did, however, perform well and if the problem of maintaining increasingly aging airframes hadn't brought it to its end, a "Super Tomcat" re-design might have been employed to add stealth to its flight characteristics. But unfortunatly the plane was still to expensive, the F-18 Hornet & Super Hornet were available ... and the Navy had priorities and decisions and the F-14 simply lost.

    It's true as I said, we're not going to see more swing wing jets. The B1 warriors on. The european Panavia Tornado also remains in service in lesser numbers, itself being replaced by Eurofighters.

    The F-14 Tomcat will always remain one of my all time favorite military jet fighter/interceptors. I enjoyed the movie TOP GUN (even though it had some silly aspects and many military experts disdained it). Another movie, a bizarre 1980 film called "THE FINAL COUNTDOWN," with Kirk Douglas & Martin Sheen, presented the F-14 in another dynamic and fascinating opportunity when, in the movie, the Nimitz was time-warped to December 6, 1941, and two Tomcats wound up ina dogfight with two Japanese Zeros. Those poor, poor Zero pilots .... they could never have been prepared for what hit 'em....... Ha ha ha.


    But in reality ... the swing wing is dead.
    Last edited by TommyGunn; 08-04-2017 at 10:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGunn View Post
    Well, first, let me say one thing: IMHO there will not ever be another "swing-wing" type military aircraft designed, as we have newer, better technology and designs available. Having said that, The F-111 started out roughly, but the main problem or bugs it had was not with it's variable geometry wings, but with its terrain following radar. It was supposed to be able to fly "nape of the earth" missions, being guided mainly by the radar. But problems arose that the radar was not quit up to par, causing a few early Aaardvarks (F-111 codename) to auger into the ground ....something that truly inconveniences and discourages pilots. This problem was later corrected IIRC.
    The F-14 also had early bugs; its Phoenix Missile system managed to shoot down a few early Tomcats-- namely the self-same one that had just launched the missile. This also pisses off the pilots.
    The B1s development was hampered because Peanut President Carter canceled the program, only to have a subsequent president re-start it. Its a fairly capable platform in all. We have B-52s still around, for sure, and they have their place and have proven very adaptable over the decades, but they are of an even older design and if the B1 is vulnerable, the B-52 is much more vulnerable.
    The swing-wing design was a good answer to the aerodynamic problems that spurred its development in the 1960s and 70s. The downside in the F-14 program was the weight of the operation system that moved and supported the wings. That imposed heavy costs on the plane in terms of maneuverability ....overcome somewhat by the fact the fuselage of the Tomcat itself was an aerodynamic lifting body, its design inspired somewhat by experiments with the Northrop HL-10 and Martin Marietta M2-F3 designs of the late 1960s.
    The F-14s original engines were also a problem as they weren't truly powerful enough or reliable enough for a carrier-based fighter-interceptor. It received better engines later in its operations life. The plane did, however, perform well and if the problem of maintaining increasingly aging airframes hadn't brought it to its end, a "Super Tomcat" re-design might have been employed to add stealth to its flight characteristics. But unfortunatly the plane was still to expensive, the F-18 Hornet & Super Hornet were available ... and the Navy had priorities and decisions and the F-14 simply lost.

    It's true as I said, we're not going to see more swing wing jets. The B1 warriors on. The european Panavia Tornado also remains in service in lesser numbers, itself being replaced by Eurofighters.

    The F-14 Tomcat will always remain one of my all time favorite military jet fighter/interceptors. I enjoyed the movie TOP GUN (even though it had some silly aspects and many military experts disdained it). Another movie, a bizarre 1980 film called "THE FINAL COUNTDOWN," with Kirk Douglas & Martin Sheen, presented the F-14 in another dynamic and fascinating opportunity when, in the movie, the Nimitz was time-warped to December 6, 1941, and two Tomcats wound up ina dogfight with two Japanese Zeros. Those poor, poor Zero pilots .... they could never have been prepared for what hit 'em....... Ha ha ha.


    But in reality ... the swing wing is dead.

    Thanks for the good read TG. I have always been fascinated with military aircraft.
    "Improvise, adapt & overcome"
    Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiwall View Post
    It is amazing that two nuclear weapon countries threaten each other every day. It just can not end well for anyone.
    I think there is a slight amusement factor here. Asians don't like to loose face, well no one does, but it is very important to them. I have several close friends in Singapore (who are Chinese in heritage), that echo this same sentiment.

    Past Presidents have coddled both NK and China when they get out of order, so as not to "insult" them. Trump is taking the opposite tact: blow smoke in my face, and you will get a forest fire in return. Trump doesn't care whether he saves face or not (IMHO), at least not in the minor sense, such as in a bunch of words.

    As NK is blowing smoke, we sail one of our destroyers past a Chinese "island", an in their face move. China lost face, so it has to respond: It will enter any war on NK's side if we start it (according to the latest news). I don't think DTs fingers are on any button, but I fully expect NK or China to supply more provocative, attempt at face saving, moves against us.

    "Steady as she goes"

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    Agree here with this statement of yours Winni.

    Past Presidents have coddled both NK and China when they get out of order, so as not to "insult" them.
    And our Presidents got predictable in this conduct. In a certain manner I am glad that Trump is not predictable as were previous Presidents.


    Tommygun,


    My mate at work ...he is retired Navy First Class and used to be in a F 14 Squadron on various carriers and tells some interesting stories about the Aircraft and the problems they often encountered with them as well as the current F18s and their breaking in problems.

    Oh...and this workmate of mine....when he was in the Navy he was on the USS Enterprise when they were filming Top Gun but mostly stayed out of the way of the film crews. He worked in environmental systems and ejection seats.

    The USS Enterprise is a sad shell of her former days as she is now sitting tied up down on the pier at the south side of this yard. All her fuel cells have been pulled and any equipment needing cannibalized or preserved on her has been removed.

    However..I do not believe he is familiar with the problems inherent with the swing wing design of the F 14s. He was sorry to see them phase them out. When he retired he went to work for Northrop Grumman in their overhaul operations on the F 14s until the Navy phased them out and then he transferred within Northrop Grumman to work with us at this shipyard. But he has some interesting stories about the Olde F14s down to the early A models sold to Iran....back in the days of the Shah.



    As to the early Terrain Following Radar and the Air Force....there were numerous problems in the development of this system before reliability and accuracy was achieved.

    The System with which I am familiar was used in the RF 4 Reconnaissance version of the Phantom. it had several modes of operation...Terrain following, Terrain Avoidance and cross scan..

    Cross scan being a combination of both Terrain following and Terrain Avoidance.

    The system could be set to auto pilot at different altitudes.....but often they preferred to go at some 200 feet....though they could go lower.



    I was also told by some maintenance personnel out of Takhli, Thailand...that this system, in it's early iterations, was tried on the F105 aircraft with the same disastrous results. Apparently they kept at it in the F111 aircraft.

    One of the things that had to be done with this system was to bore sight the radar to the line of flight of the aircraft.

    This system was revolutionary when it came out...and highly classified.

    A variation of it was incorporated into the C 5 aircraft in it's multi mode radar. Imagine a C 5 flying nap of the earth. Wow!!

    I am certain that it is built into the C 17 radar system. With the caliber of operations with which they are tasked...it would be badly needed.

    I am also certain that with newer developments in electronics this system has been substantially updated.




    Thanks,
    Orangetom
    Last edited by orangetom1999; 08-11-2017 at 11:14 AM.

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    I was thinking about this as I was out in my garage finishing up on the reloading/rolling my own in some 85 rounds of .308 Winchester rounds loaded with 150 grain spire points...at about 2600 FPS.


    I was asking myself if China is using North Korea as an expendable disposable test bed to check the resolve of America under the unplanned for.. Trump Administration.??


    Furthermore....if this is so....there is a possibility that the deep state people/internationalists are in on it in their anti Trump social and political positions...behind the scenes.

    For many of these people are deeply involved in profits in China by way of their concealed handlers/bosses and by extension relationships...North Korea.

    Just some random and sometimes rabid thoughts,

    Orangetom

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    I know it is more complicated than this, in that Us/China/Russia/NK have internal problems of their own, but as long as we are playing a what if chess game.....

    Suppose NK does get a few of their missiles off, and at the same time Chinese and Russian subs peak up on the Atlantic and Pacific oceans and complete their job over here. Do we let off the rest of our arsenal thereby sealing the fate of the world (death by radiation) or do we push back with what is left, and hunt down Barry ?

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