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Thread: Question on moving water uphill with solar well pump

  1. #21
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    I'll just say that all the overflow you speak of equates to run time on the pump. Again, I'd plan on running no more than 50% of daylight hours. These pumps last about as long as a windmill pump.

    Aermotors run about $4500 last I looked. Fiasa is Argentina I think, knockoff of the exact same thing. Problem is that nobody wants to install or service them any more. I've been pulling my windmills for about 45 years. When the well plays out you can red rill, but someone has to move the windmill.
    Once on safari in deepest darkest Afganistan we ran out of Gin, and were compelled to survive on food and water for several days.


    I typically carry a flask of vodka for snakebites. I also carry a small snake.- W. C. Fields

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winni View Post
    The key here is selecting the components you want to use and look at their specifications. Not many inverters accept varying voltage off a bare solar array, so either find one or you will need a battery.. You can then convert the 120VAC via a step up transformer to 480. Use the suitable calculator for wire size (for example):
    http://www.paigewire.com/pumpWireCal...ookieSupport=1
    Then either a step down transformer or a DC power supply that will take what ever your AC voltage is down to your desired DC voltage and amps.

    You need to look at your budget and select the components that are available. All products will specify their efficiency, so you can calculate losses.
    How do these step up transformers work? I did the math and if i can step it up to 480 then i can run 2400W of power through that 12awg wire. That could be useful in the future especially if i decide to upgrade to a better pump. I found this transformer on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/200928676317 but i don't understand the primary /secondary volts thing.. will they step up in one direction and step down in the other? theoretically could i have two boxes the same on either end of the cable and use one to step up and the other to step back down to 120v? then use a standard house plug transformer to go from 120AC to 30V DC at the pump?
    2nd Law: In a closed system, the entropy of the system will either remain constant or increase

  3. #23
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    Ice the AC transformer you linked looks to be a 240v input and a 480v output. You would need something else to take your voltage up to 240. Plus an inverter to take DC to AC to start with. Then back down to what ever you load is for the well, or at the cabin if you want. Running 480v however will allow you to use less expensive (smaller) wire.
    Greater love hath no man than this, That a man lay down his life for a friend.
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  4. #24
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    Also realize with all the transforming and converting from DC>AC>DC you will likely loose 1/2 your initial power input so think 2 panels instead of 1.

    Also Inverters and transformers like constant, steady power, you'll be giving them the opposite of that. Every time a cloud goes overhead the power will unexpectedly be cut , this cycling will not be good for service life on an inexpensive inverter / Transformer
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

  5. #25

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    ok -just my opinion/cheap working solution.i take it you are going to repump or gravity work with you water out of cistern.ok you can use 2 of these -one to get up hill-100 feet times .433=43psi head(=231 feet of head=100psi)pipe size wont hurt you =3/4
    '1" is good for 7gpm -but you will be pumping maybe 1-2 gpm-depends on what pump you use.
    maybe 100watts of panels-$150 apiece- cheap charge controller -runs daylite hours-can use simple stock tank type float valve to shut off when full/12 volt diagrammed pump like on rv .
    http://www.amazon.com/Shurflo-8000-5...0_SR160%2C160_
    put one more at cistern -with charge controller & batterys and you have city like water pressure -hint put low level lock out in cistern to stop pump at low level-auto comeback on when water come back up.there cheap get a few spares and your done.
    Last edited by wbradss; 09-18-2015 at 09:38 AM.

  6. #26
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    Well I've been told of another option that I'm starting to like as it's cheaper and a bit simpler. The Nemo submersible pump (http://nemosolar.com/dcsubmersiblepumps/id9.html) seems to have similar pumping characteristics (I think it's only a few percent less efficient than the shurflo 9300 series) but it comes in a 115V variety. So i can install 200W of panels up on the flats. run through an inverter to bump it to 120V, send it down 1000 feet (yeah i just GPS'd it so length got a lot longer than what i thought it was) and should still be able to use 12g copper wire.

    I'm not clear on if i need a battery bank or if the inverter will simply kick on when there's enough sun and off when there isn't? Anyone know? Also Nemo sells a float valve so my next question is is there any issue running the float valve between the 120v inverter and the 1000ft of cable to the pump? Based on what i can figure, I'll only be sending .94A @ 120V down the line to push the water up the hill....I hope i'm figuring this out right as I'm looking to buy the wire and pipe this weekend.
    2nd Law: In a closed system, the entropy of the system will either remain constant or increase

  7. #27
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    Why not put the panels down at the water source? Save a ton on wire. Also, length doesn't effect lift.
    Once on safari in deepest darkest Afganistan we ran out of Gin, and were compelled to survive on food and water for several days.


    I typically carry a flask of vodka for snakebites. I also carry a small snake.- W. C. Fields

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by icentropy View Post
    Well I've been told of another option that I'm starting to like as it's cheaper and a bit simpler. The Nemo submersible pump (http://nemosolar.com/dcsubmersiblepumps/id9.html) seems to have similar pumping characteristics (I think it's only a few percent less efficient than the shurflo 9300 series) but it comes in a 115V variety. So i can install 200W of panels up on the flats. run through an inverter to bump it to 120V, send it down 1000 feet (yeah i just GPS'd it so length got a lot longer than what i thought it was) and should still be able to use 12g copper wire.

    I'm not clear on if i need a battery bank or if the inverter will simply kick on when there's enough sun and off when there isn't? Anyone know? Also Nemo sells a float valve so my next question is is there any issue running the float valve between the 120v inverter and the 1000ft of cable to the pump? Based on what i can figure, I'll only be sending .94A @ 120V down the line to push the water up the hill....I hope i'm figuring this out right as I'm looking to buy the wire and pipe this weekend.
    I'd check with Nemo before buying the wire.

    The Nemo Pump I have is 24 volt. I've tested it out and IMHO it's every bit as good as the 9300 at first glance. Only time will tell if it's as reliable, but being built with a FloJet pump it should be.

    The one concern I would have with an AC pump is what starting load will it need to start turning? AC Induction motors need a lot more starting current than a DC permanent magnet motor.

    You might be able to compensate for this with a hard start capacitor or something, wish I could be more help but I'm more comfortable giving advice on a DC system as that is what I run.

    Adding batteries is the very last option I would consider but may be necessary if you plan on running an inverter to convert from DC to AC. An Inverter will not like the constant cycling and non consistent power supply.
    Last edited by Tdale; 09-29-2015 at 08:26 PM.
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KINGCHIP View Post
    Why not put the panels down at the water source? Save a ton on wire. Also, length doesn't effect lift.
    length does affect lift by adding friction. in this case I had to go to a 3/4" pipe to help reduce the affect down to what i'd consider reasonably negligible of only 6'. I wish i could put the panels down by the pump but that won't work due to the winter sun here being so low that they'd almost never see it. Plus i really like the idea of consolidating them all to one location to make it easier to adjust them as well as wipe snow ect off during the winter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdale View Post
    I'd check with Nemo before buying the wire.

    The Nemo Pump I have is 12 volt. I've tested it out and IMHO it's every bit as good as the 9300 at first glance. Only time will tell if it's as reliable, but being built with a FloJet pump it should be.

    The one concern I would have with an AC pump is what starting load will it need to start turning? AC Induction motors need a lot more starting current than a DC permanent magnet motor.

    You might be able to compensate for this with a hard start capacitor or something, wish I could be more help but I'm more comfortable giving advice on a DC system as that is what I run.

    Adding batteries is the very last option I would consider but may be necessary if you plan on running an inverter to convert from DC to AC. An Inverter will not like the constant cycling and non consistent power supply.
    I wrote Nemo but no answer yet. I did speak with a local guy that does a lot of solar and prepping type stuff and he said I'd basically need to run batteries between the panels and the inverter. But at this time those batteries could be very small as they're only going to run the pump so even a few golf cart batteries would work. He also suggested i run 120W panels instead of the 250w i was going to run to save on freight, comes out cheaper per watt.
    2nd Law: In a closed system, the entropy of the system will either remain constant or increase

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by icentropy View Post
    length does affect lift by adding friction. in this case I had to go to a 3/4" pipe to help reduce the affect down to what i'd consider reasonably negligible of only 6'. I wish i could put the panels down by the pump but that won't work due to the winter sun here being so low that they'd almost never see it. Plus i really like the idea of consolidating them all to one location to make it easier to adjust them as well as wipe snow ect off during the winter.

    I wrote Nemo but no answer yet. I did speak with a local guy that does a lot of solar and prepping type stuff and he said I'd basically need to run batteries between the panels and the inverter. But at this time those batteries could be very small as they're only going to run the pump so even a few golf cart batteries would work. He also suggested i run 120W panels instead of the 250w i was going to run to save on freight, comes out cheaper per watt.
    Running two golf cart batteries would solve your power supply issues as they will buffer the solar input to the inverter.

    If you are adding batteries to the system there are a few things that you might want to consider.

    FLA batteries will stratify if not given proper equalization charges regularly. This requires a charging current of around C/8 to C/12. Two Golf cart batteries wired for 12 volts will have around 225 amps of capacity so you will need 18 to 28 amps of charging current to keep your batteries healthy.

    If you plan to equalize monthly with a generator or some other solution you can disregard the following.

    If you look at the back of any solar panel they will have a "Imp" number. This is the Max Amperage output you will see under optimal conditions, you will want your panels to add up to at least 18 Amps of output for charging 2 golf cart batteries.

    A standard 12 volt 100 Watt solar panel puts out about 5.8 amps, and this is under the most ideal circumstances

    So IMHO you will want a minimum of 300 watts of Solar for charging 2 golf cart batteries unless you can equalize another way.
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

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