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Thread: Good place to shoot a suspect

  1. #21
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    Doc, they thought it was armor because of the design. At least they corrected the story once the facts were in.

    I know several LEO who have taken "armor hits". They will tell you that even though the armor stops the round, it does hurt like hell and can leave bruises. All that kinetic energy has to go somewhere.

    In the Colorado example, 3-4 hits in the same area, even on a trauma plate, would have had him crying like a baby. Plus, every hit weakens the armor. Some popular trauma plates have failed in as little as 2 hits to the same spot. Look at it this way. I carry a 1911 with 230gr JHP, and a spare mag of 230gr hardball. If I dump all 8 rounds in the same spot, that's a world of hurt concentrated in one area. The JHP would expand on impact, but the hardball won't. My best case scenario is one of those hardballs turns, follows the armor, and smacks you right in the chin. It has been documented, and more than a few LEO have perished because of this. Unless you are wired on meth, that much pounding on one spot will definitely take the wind out of your sails for a bit, and give me the advantage.
    Μολὼν λαβέ (Molon labe), “Come and get them!”

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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska View Post
    Not if your a mall ninja..........................
    Well a lot of them around here think it's like Hollywood. I'll just hit him in the kneecap or maybe shoot the gun out of his hand. If you could have seen the guy in the dark through the smoke it wouldn't be like the range. You've got people running around and a moving target who is shooting back. And misconceptions regarding the mystical properties of body armor are abound. If I hit you it's going to hurt. If I hit you multiple times there's an increasing chance the armor will fail. There are a ton of variables involved.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straycat1911 View Post
    Massad Ayoob recommends the following if you suspect armor:

    Two or three to the body. As stated, might not stop him, but will get his attention for a moment so you can........

    Fire two or three shots to the pelvic region. Easier to hit than the head (small, fast moving) and when the hips are broken, Hulk Hogan will hit the ground. Now you can shoot to the head if Mr Dirtbag has not seen the error of his ways.

    Yeah, I'm sure all the guys scrunched their nuts at that last recommendation.
    Spot on! Start with center mass because it is the largest area, assuring a higher hit probability. It also contains most of the vital organs, which even if not hit directly do not respond well to the hydrostatic shock. Think of a rock thrown into a pond causing ripples. Bigger rocks cause bigger ripples. Even with body armor on, it hurts. Transition to the pelvic girdle. If broken, the skeleton cannot support the body. This is very painful to the point one could loose conciousness. It is doubtful if one could manage to sit, crawl or even think of continuing to fight. Also, there are two huge garden hoses running through this region that if only nicked will cause unconciousness rather quickly. Completely severed, your attacker would only have seconds to react. Lastly, if all else fails, go for the head. This is a small target area which is even harder to hit while in motion. Suspend a ballon from a string and try to hit it from varying distances and you will see what i mean. Now try to hit it as it sways with the wind and you are moving towards it, away from it and laterally and you will understand why this is last. It is not an easy task, but its not impossible either. But no matter the situation you must remember that you are also liable for every round you fire. The bad guy doesnt care who he hits but you should. State laws for your area will dictate. See if your state has adopted a "self defense" law, a.k.a. "castle doctrine" and get familiar with it. My state has it and it even goes as far to say that no citizen can be arrested for using deadly force in self defense unless there is something "hinky" about the case. It even goes to say that a citizen cannot be sued in civil court over a self defense case. No more bad guys suing honest citizens because they can no longer "work" because of injuries sustained while burglarizing your home. Laatly, none of this matters if you dont carry concealed where allowed and if you are not spending time practicing skills and fundamentals. Take some classes if your budget allows (the NRA has "first steps" & "self defense in the home/ out of the home" classes that are reasonably priced. Some law enforcement agencies offer similar courses for free. But by all means, get some range time in. Even if all you can afford time and/or budgetwise is 50 rounds a month, thats better than no range time at all. Just my 2cents worth. God bless.

  4. #24
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    Forgive me, i should have read all the posts as what i said was basically covered already.

  5. #25
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    Lone Eagle, which is why I said, shoot what you can see, and shoot it a lot.

    Body armor doesn't cover everything, Hollywood aside, and rounds penetrate the nooks and crannies. Most of the readers here won't be making four inch hits on a body under stress, it will probably be more like 12 inch hits. That's a big area to hit on a body. Armor or not, take the shot.

  6. #26
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    Yoni is correct. Keep shooting center of mass while closing in on him for face shots.Don't forget you will also be shooting his hands and arms. Putting him down is your only chance. This might take a lot of ammo. I always carry two spare mags. Don't give up. Sorry, my first ever posting.

  7. #27
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    Caster is absolutely correct about shooting "suspects". Doing so could bring you a lot of unwanted grief. Further, better not shoot even the perp in today's world unless he/she is threatening you or other innocent persons. I can remember a time when deadly force was authorized to stop a fleeing felon...NOT ANYMORE. Better be very certain you know the law before using deadly force.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
    Caster is absolutely correct about shooting "suspects". Doing so could bring you a lot of unwanted grief. Further, better not shoot even the perp in today's world unless he/she is threatening you or other innocent persons. I can remember a time when deadly force was authorized to stop a fleeing felon...NOT ANYMORE. Better be very certain you know the law before using deadly force.
    Nice to see this; we spend a lot of time at our classes talking about the aftermath of a shooting, not just the shooting.

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