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Thread: Good place to shoot a suspect

  1. #11
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    I will clarify that I am not advocating the use of any of these techniques on anyone other than armored assailants. Most will only use a chest rig. Be prepared for a combination of plate/soft/trauma pads, it offers the greatest shock absorption. That's what a lot of our guys run. We're trained to draw and shoot the thighs, its the closest large area to aim for from holster, then transition to head shot.

  2. #12
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    I really don't care for this title, you do not shoot suspects you neutralize threats. Aim at the big parts until they go down, if they don't go down with hits to big parts, break them down as quickly as possible. That would include but not belimited to thighs, hips, knees, and if you are a great shot under unstable conditions, throat, jaw, chin. At the very minimum scar up that face shield.

  3. #13
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    I was having a hard time with the name. That is a much better one. I first started with where to shoot someone, figured that would be a very bad start to a kinda important conversation. With the day and age where anyone can get riot gear and body armor. I know there isn't many people that will go to the effort the colorado guy did but for if it ever does happen, I would like to be prepared. I usually have a taurus Judge with both 45 and a 410 or two, so really I need a different carry weapon.
    You don't see Psychotic coming!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwconnertx View Post
    There is protection available for just about everywhere, neck, groin, head, face, legs (which the colorado suspect was supposedly wearing according to some reports) You can get rifle plates for the forearms, sides, front, back. You can soft armor pretty much head to toe. You'll probably cook yourself trying to wear it all, or roll your own ankle... but its out there.
    Not if your a mall ninja..........................
    Once during a hunting trip in Remote Alaska I ran out of Twinkie’s and was compelled to live off of of fish and moose meat

  5. #15
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    Ok I thought the pelvic region all on my own, without looking at someone elses training... But thats because as a martial artist I know the hips are the center of balance and move less then the upper body. Had a convo with a City Police Officer in the Army Surplus Store (he was trying to impress the owner) and mentioned "criminals in body armor" like every gang banger is wearing a vest to...

    My response was this; then shoot him just above the groin, 1: its center of gravity for the body & 2: if the rounds rupture the bladder the toxin in the blood stream with cause shock within seconds (almost instantly). Besides trauma plates just cover the heart anyway right. So the Ron Collins Drill (I decided to copy right my idea) is 2 to the low abdomine/hip region & 1 to the head. Basicly just blow his balls off...
    Last edited by Draven Azropht; 07-26-2012 at 08:48 AM. Reason: spelling

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straycat1911 View Post
    Massad Ayoob recommends the following if you suspect armor:

    Two or three to the body. As stated, might not stop him, but will get his attention for a moment so you can........

    Fire two or three shots to the pelvic region. Easier to hit than the head (small, fast moving) and when the hips are broken, Hulk Hogan will hit the ground. Now you can shoot to the head if Mr Dirtbag has not seen the error of his ways.

    Yeah, I'm sure all the guys scrunched their nuts at that last recommendation.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    The basic idea behind the groin/pelvis as a secondary target is that you have a lower chance of an actual "stop" based on physiology. It's a great way to bring someone down, but they can still shoot you as nothing has interfered with that part of the system. Given that most stops are psychological rather than physiological I don't know how much credence should be placed on that idea, but that is the reasoning, to try for a CNS shutdown before anything else.
    http://yonitheblogger.com/
    This guy is a former Israeli soldier / sniper and was an American LEO. He was talking on the radio the other night and was saying 5 rounds to the chest even with body armor was going to get the guys attention. Head shots will do the same as well. He mentioned going to the hip / pelvis of the shooter and even dropping down the the ankle. His point, what ever it takes to stop the aggressor.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    The basic idea behind the groin/pelvis as a secondary target is that you have a lower chance of an actual "stop" based on physiology. It's a great way to bring someone down, but they can still shoot you as nothing has interfered with that part of the system. Given that most stops are psychological rather than physiological I don't know how much credence should be placed on that idea, but that is the reasoning, to try for a CNS shutdown before anything else.
    Ok here is my reasoning, if they guy has body armor & shoot him 2-3 times in the chest. I will have his attention; not necessarily much else. If I go for the head, I'm aiming a smaller target thats basicly bobbing on another larger moving target thats bullet proof. If I think he's got armor I'm going for the pelvic region because a) trauma plates don't cover that area, b) its a more stable portion of the body & c) if I rupture his bladder the urine in the blood stream is cause septic (not sure if its the right word) shock & even if it doesn't c) I'm gonna seriously limit the shooter's mobility allowing me to use cover & concealment to get to position where I can aim for a CNS shot.

    Hell if he has body armor & I can't penetrate it with my weapon, I'll be happy to hit the knee or leg whereever. Because if cause damage he is gonna be distracted & well few people are fighters or mentally tough enough to be shot & still try to fight. Even if they structural damage to the body limits the ability to function.

  8. #18
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    You used two C's. I guess its suppose to be C+!
    You don't see Psychotic coming!

  9. #19
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    I can't count past C... lol

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    The Mozambique Drill was developed specifically to address the issue of body armor: 2 rounds center mass, then if target is still up transition to the head. Clint Smith teaches a variation of 2 center mass, 2 pelvic girdle, transition to head.
    The pelvic shot is one of the best. Lots of things to break and bleed out down there. The head shot, not so much. One of the things that we do at MilCopp Tactical is put everyone on the line and draw a big circle around the eye, then tell everyone to make their headshot. The ocular cavity isn't that big and when the head is moving, it gets smaller as stress goes up and the target moves faster.

    I didn't read the whole thread, but did anyone here mention that the Colorado shooter was not wearing body armor? Just a Blackhawk vest and balaclava?

    Shoot what you can see, and shoot it many, many times.

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