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Thread: 91/30 Mosin Nagants $65.00

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bersa2 View Post
    I do recall a recent thread here stating an FFL for personal use wasn't a good idea. Though I do like the concept.
    And why not? As long as you keep the logs correctly and abide by the requirements, it's really not a big deal. This is assuming we are talking about a C&R or a type 01 FFL, NFA stuff is a whole different hairball. The way the regs are is simply that you must "be able" and "intend" to conduct business with the FFL... not that you "have" to. The application says right on it that you "intend" to make a profit. That's not a requirement that you actually do, but hell, you could do a single $10 transfer for somebody and call that your profit (aka they want you to pay taxes on it!)... THIS is the major rub, you need to obtain a state tax ID so that you can report sales tax on anything you sell. ATF will ask if you have a state tax ID #, and you should cover your ass and get one so nobody comes looking for their share later. If you don't actually sell anything, and have to books to prove it, you don't have to pay that tax (but you still need to file). YOU NEED TO HAVE A RECORD TO PROVE IT. Also, don't deal under the table or withdraw merchandise from the business and then sell it privately. Be honest, they will wonder where this **** went if it leaves the log and does not reside in your personal collection. Things in the log need to come and go fully disclosed, so don't skimp because they'll nail you for it.

    Now, as you mentioned, your state can tighten the rules or add more requirements. It's a non-issue in my state so, maybe i'm just luckier than some of you poor folks. IMHO, as long as you deal honestly and keep an accurate log, there is no reason why you couldn't/shouldn't use an FFL for personal business. I'm planning to do it in the near future, in fact I have the preliminary stuff here in my "to do" pile and i'll get to it eventually... but I also plan to sell and do transfers, so i'm covered that way too. In WY, I don't actually need the fed's permission to sell guns made/assembled here, and under the law the feds can be arrested if they try to stop me (WY Firearms Freedom Act). However, i'm not willing to be the guinea pig for a 10th amendment fight, nor do I have any resources to assist in the legal battle, so i'll just keep playing nice with the feds. Besides, I want an FFL so I can receive from out of state and take possession immediately should I buy out of state. The problem these days is that the ATF is really being restrictive about issuing FFL's to people without a storefront. It can still be done if you can prove that it's legal in your area to do business out of your house, but they will go so far as to check your zoning, etc. Honestly, it's bull**** that's way outside the realm of appropriate (IMHO), but that's the ATF for you. Total abuse of power is their claim to fame. Fortunately, if you are into gunsmithing you have a better chance to get through that loophole because you need an FFL to receive the people's guns to work on. That is a business that can be run out of your home with very little hassle in most places, but you had better have the equipment to prove it, because they will site visit and expect to see it.

    But I digress... many mosins out there do qualify for C&R, and that is a cheap license that IS intended for personal "collector" use and does not require the same legal wrangling as the type 01. Plus, it will give you the FFL price break @ brownells, etc. so it will pay for itself if you buy a lot of junk. Personally, I think most folks should just stick with the C&R because there is so much less liability that way. Plus, as a type 01 you basically "can't" do a private sale even of stuff you had before, and even your personal stuff has to be logged. So if you're worried about Uncle Sugar keeping track of you, then it's not for you.
    Last edited by wyomegaman; 09-10-2011 at 01:39 PM.

  2. #12
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    The gunsmith FFL is more of a hassle than most know.
    The ATF deems bluing, painting, aftermarket triggers...etc., as ''manufacturing''. So, a $150.00 manufacturing license covers that. Some get by with it, I'm not taking the chance.

  3. #13
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    If they have any left on monday I may pick up one or 2
    “We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.”
    Thomas Jefferson

    I am the powdered donut KING!!!

  4. #14
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    texan....if you get one or two, would you post what kind of condition they are in when they get to you.

    I wished I had the extra cash to order 10 of them just squirrel away.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
    texan....if you get one or two, would you post what kind of condition they are in when they get to you.

    I wished I had the extra cash to order 10 of them just squirrel away.
    i will give you an update after I call them monday
    “We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.”
    Thomas Jefferson

    I am the powdered donut KING!!!

  6. #16
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    i was too late....
    “We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.”
    Thomas Jefferson

    I am the powdered donut KING!!!

  7. #17
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    Ya, I noticed they were gone off their website earlier in the day.
    Oh well.... ''it' happens.

  8. #18
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    there will be more, there or elsewhere... it's not like there weren't many made, lol.

    I hear you on the hassle factor trapper, the more I read this paperwork the more i think it's just an excuse for them to violate your 4th amendment rights. I may not pursue it after all, even though I think I could make good money around here doing it. Time will tell...

  9. #19
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    wyomegaman...
    I'm not good with paperwork. I rather have a whoopin than mess with it. I get my wife to do most of it, and I just look over it.
    The thing that gets me, is the manufacturing license. How in the heck is bluing, pakerizing, nickeling, trigger jobs, installing a new link in a 1911...etc , manufacturing? There is no argueing with the alphabet soup bunch, so to cover a gunsmith's butt, he best get that. The problems I've seen personally....each agent is different. One will tell me one thing about manufacturing, and the next will say something different. Who to believe? It's too fine of a line to walk, so getting the additional license covers the situation.
    If you don't mind paperwork, keep up with it, log everything...you'd be fine.
    Also, you can buy say a portable building...use that license for that building. Put on your papers building ''B''.
    Hours posted, use it for transactions, and they won't come in your primary residents.

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