Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: CNC machines and their value in a ITEOTWAWKI world

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    Wow!! interesting replies here and some very valid ideas posted.

    That was my question...what would be the power requirements for a CNC machine?? They would have to be at least 220volts if not 440 Volts. How would you get that kind of power???

    Also someone mentioned building a generator or motor to turn such an CNC machine or turn a Hydraulic pump. Now that would be as rare and valuable skills as in knowing how to run a manual lathe, milling machine ..drill press etc.

    I remember cutting through a shop years ago ..an electric shop and in there they were dismantling electric motors...and rebuilding them including rewinding the coils...or armatures....the internal wiring in the motors. Now I know some of these motors were 220 volts and some 440 volt motors. Now that is a skill. Same thing with winding a generator...or machining an armature to be true...working brushes ...etc.

    Not all people have these skills and knowledge. This would be very valuable in SHTF and particularly in TEOTWAWKI. These people would stand out...particularly people with this kind of knowledge and who could also work well together.

    As to lard for a cooling lubricant..In a pinch I expect it would have to be melted down from it's wax like state to a liquid and manually poured on the work.

    Sort of like an olde time oiler ..on a ship steam engine or such...from the olde days. This is what one does in a pinch. Basically what one does in a pinch...like a squirt oil can or drip oil can...over a hole being drilled.

    Agree..the cutting tools would be very hard to come by...

    I've seen some olde timers re surface their cutting tools on a bench grinder and then recut with them. They seem to know just the angles needed to work certain jobs...and how to manually grind them

    But such cutting tools are much harder than most drill bits in their metallurgy..and once they are gone...they are gone.
    There seem to be only a handful of companies who can make good cutting tools for certain metals. The harder the grade of metal/steel the harder the cutting tool and also the more expensive the cutting tool.


    You watch a fellow, like up at Colonial Williamsburg, who can make a wooden bucket..or a wooden barrel...now that is a skill. Or even wooden wheels are made there like in the olde days. A wheelwright.

    They even have a shop there where they will make you, by hand, a flintlock rifle, musket, or pistol..including rifling the barrels on a hand machine...as in the olde days.
    They are very expensive but it can be done. Now that is a skill...even to make a barrel or bucket by hand.

    Yes..those with knowledge of how to make things, use tools..and even to make a thing or tool work differently from what it was originally designed..will be in high demand...and these people become just as valuable as rare or scarce resources.

    Thanks,
    Orangetom

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mountains & Lakes of the extreme NorthEast
    Posts
    1,134

    Default

    A lot of the pre CNC (say manual) machines of the old days were three phase. I know, because I have installed quite a few of these in friends garages. Three phase is easy enough with 220V and a phase converter. All the CNCs I have worked on repairing have been 220V, but I deal with mostly the mom and pop shops that can afford them.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    872

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mogunner View Post
    I have manual machines, both mill, drill and lathe. Just less stuff to break.
    Same here, a very handy talent to have.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winni View Post
    A lot of the pre CNC (say manual) machines of the old days were three phase. I know, because I have installed quite a few of these in friends garages. Three phase is easy enough with 220V and a phase converter. All the CNCs I have worked on repairing have been 220V, but I deal with mostly the mom and pop shops that can afford them.
    Three phase....wow!! It has been a long time since I've thought this through...three phase....like A, B, And C phase 120 degrees out on each phase??? This is done by a converter???

    I did not know that. Thanks,

    Orangetom

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mountains & Lakes of the extreme NorthEast
    Posts
    1,134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by orangetom1999 View Post
    Three phase....wow!! It has been a long time since I've thought this through...three phase....like A, B, And C phase 120 degrees out on each phase??? This is done by a converter???

    I did not know that. Thanks,

    Orangetom
    This is correct. Three phase is all around us, look at the high tension lines, always a multiple of three, or that bundle of 4 wires on the top to a pole, the top is the carrier/ground, the other three are the phases. Three phase motors are more efficient. Check out a "rotary phase converter", it has a motor generator for the third phase, and a box of caps matched to the impedance of the motor you are running to get the 120 degrees appearance to the motor out of two phase 240V.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,569

    Default

    Winni,

    I had not thought about 3 phase being more efficient..thanks for that update. Though it has been awhile I believe syncros and servos are often three phase.

    Turning a rudder on a ship...a motor in the wheel up in the control room....turns a certain angle and electronically back aft another motor gets the signal from up front...and follows by the same amount...or angular displacement..and adjusts a hydraulic valve to port fluid representing that angular displacement of the rudder. All electronic...sort of fly by wire. I am thinking this is often three phase. It has to be precise..I do know that... to get the correct angular displacement as the wheel is turning.

    I used to think it was sort of magic until one of the engineers explained how it works.

    Amazing what can be done with electronics/electrical.

    Thanks,
    Orangetom

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mountains & Lakes of the extreme NorthEast
    Posts
    1,134

    Default

    Actually, 4 phase is more efficient that 3, and 4 is less efficient than..... etc. The cost to incremental cost of more conductors breaks at three phase. Poly phase things are also all around, think that vehicle you were working on, alternators are poly phase, count those diodes you can replace. The more rectified "bumps" you have (due to rectification of the phase windings), the closer to DC you come and less noise presented to the other electronics. Fun stuff.
    Last edited by Winni; 10-09-2016 at 10:15 PM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    314

    Default

    I would think an EMP, or even un unstable power grid would render something so technically advanced, and computer operated into a large paperweight. I operate a manually controlled "Willis" mill, and metal lathe at my job. Basically, they are completely gear drive, and hand adjustable, with little to no circuitry to mess up. Seems like these would have an advantage if ITEOTWAWKI.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    1,230

    Default

    Also if it was TEOTWAWKI you would not likely be doing production work but instead making one thing and then making something else. Not much advantage to a cnc doing that kind of work.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Broomfield, Colorado
    Posts
    70

    Default

    Assuming that you could build a generator and maintain all of the equipment (both the CNC equipment and the generator), where are you going to get the fuel for the generator? unless you have the ability to build a generator that will use raw materials, such as wind or wood or coal or maybe bio-diesel (if available in your area - and yes, I am specifically leaving out solar because I do not believe that replacement or additional solar panels could be manufactured in that kind of a scenario) you will eventually run out of fuel and still have a couple of paperweights.

    What is involved in building a generator that will use these natural materials for fuel?

    I am not trying to cast doubt on the idea, I am truly curious about the possibility of electrical generation using something other than petroleum based fuel.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •