What type BOV, what Camo BOV?

[madmyk]

While I am trying to get by with what I have (2wd C1500), and get it as ready as possible for any BO situation, I can't help but wonder....

I have considered Camo of the general hunting/military variety.
I have considered Urban Camo (see thread http://whenshtf.com/showthread.php?t=2189 ).
I have considered an actual surplus military vehicle.
I have considered the advantages of...say... a 4wd SUV vs. an AWD wagon vs. 2wd econo truck vs. well you get the idea...
I have considered Diesel vs. Gas.

I have come to NO solid conclusion.
Given the (my) situation of expecting to need to travel 4 to 6 hundred miles (we're talking EOTWAWKI and permanent relocation bug out), and expecting broken down everything (no fuel to be had/highways clogged/EOTW), I keep pondering a couple of things...

Considering the actual trip to get there...
Will urban camo draw to much attention from the stranded? or will it allow for "ease of passage" as people will see it as..."there goes someone to help fix things, let them pass"? Will a milsurp vehicle do the same? Is plain jane regular old chevy truck not looking like much of anything gonna be the best? Will same truck with "real" camo paint me as "one of those survival nuts, he must have supplies, lets get him..."?

I know prolong sustainability where I am in NOT an option. Leaving is. 4WD to get around the broken masses? Plain jane, so one can be "out of sight,out of mind"?

[soberups]

Just my humble opinion;
The best BOV is one that is (a) RELIABLE (b) that you can afford to stockpile 1000 miles worth of fuel for and (c) that is capable of hauling/towing whatever you need to bring along.

I think that camo, big tires, roll bars and the whole "road warrior" setup is a waste of money that could otherwise be applied towards maintainence and fuel.

If SHTF, you need to assume that there isnt going to be any gas. What you have stockpiled is all you can count on having. A nondescript, plain-jane minivan or pickup towing a trailer full of fuel cans is going a lot further than a jacked-up bad boy 4x4 monster truck that is out of gas by the side of the road with all your worldly posessions in it.

My BOV's are a Dodge Caravan with a utility trailer, and a VW Jetta diesel car that gets 40 mpg. I have enough fuel stored up right now to drive them both over 1000 miles without stopping at a gas station. No, they aren't "bad ass" but they are well maintained, have good tires, and will reliably get me, my family, and our stuff where we need to go.

Disclaimer; I also own a 3/4 ton 4x4 truck with big tires, winch etc. It gets about 7mpg. If SHTF, I'm siphoning all 35 gallons out of it and leaving it behind.

[BobS]

Security is invisibility.

Generally speaking.


Now, to specifics, I am in the middle of writing a book about Vehicle Mobility (as evidenced my cut and pastes in the thread on tires here) and many of these questions are far larger than you are thinking, I would imagine.

For example, you mention an ex-military vehicle. Are you thinking about an M35 series 2.5Ton 6x6 vehicle, or a M1009 Blazer (or perhaps a Dodge M880 pickup or Chevy M1008 pickup)? Have you considered parts availability now as well as in the "future conflict"? Have you thought about how much it costs to maintain a vehicle in storage until it's needed, or is it going to be used now and "kept up" and maintained?

What kind of load are you going to place in the vehicle? Not "how much" but rather "WHAT KIND" of "stuff"? Have you decided WHERE you are going to run to when required? Have you considered what time of year you are going to run?

All these questions must be answered to form any kind of realistic plan for transportation. Just saying "gonna' git me a 4x4 and paint sum camo on it" is going to also give you a BIG target on your back.

Let me know if you want more info on the details of all these kinds of decisions and potential options. Be aware, there will be a LOT of people that will argue with my comment, and as I stated in my "tire" thread...let them. My recommendations come from over 30 years of designing and building vehicles around the world-both civilian and military.

The important thing to remember is that YOU have to make the decisions YOUR FAMILY are going to live or die from. No one else's needs are exactly like yours, and most people are happy to spend other people's money without considering what you need (not want, but NEED) and they don't have to live with the aftermath of a bad decision.

Best regards,

Bob

[madmyk]

Bob,
What I am specifically considering is a CUCV 1010 as a hunting/camping/BOV. I would think, given a "normal" paint job it could pass for a Utility (as in phone/power/etc) vehicle. It seems it would cover the bases for off road ability w/o being over the top, runs on diesel (read bio-d, waste oil, cut motor oil), and being a "run of the mill" Chevy 6.2L parts should be reasonable to find.
As for what kind of load, well that will depend greatly on time. Will it be 5+ years before I need to bug out....if so, I should have my BOL ready and stocked, if not, it will be hauling everything it can. As with what time of year, well those are variable that I have no control over at this point.
As for the where, well that one is the only "given", and that is only given IF I can make that long of a journey in a SHTF aftermath.
For the "gonna' git me a 4x4 and paint sum camo on it", there will be camo paint for it for AFTER i get there. I think 4WD will be VERY beneficial for my trek, if not a need. I am not thinking "monster truck" in the typical Southern way of thinking.

All that said, I agree with your thoughts on invisibility. Yet, I fully expect to be "stuck" dealing with/avoiding large groups of stranded folks. How best to achieve invisibility while transversing such a gauntlet is where my main (current) concern lies. There is such a thing as "hiding in plain sight" and that is where my Urban Camo idea is leading me. I completely believe that a big camo 4x4 with gas cans hanging off and a big load in the back is asking for trouble where I must travel. Big camo 4x4 once I am there is a TOTALLY different story. I also think that ANY vehicle still moving will be somewhat of a target for the ill prepared groups stranded on their way to ?????, but which vehicle is less of a target, The semi invisible "plain old truck", the semi offical "utility truck", or the "totally" offical military truck, or the "bubba truck"? I feel previous 2 have a better invisibility rating, while the latter have a bigger intimidation rating. How big of a mob does it take to overcome the "fear" of the .mil or necks? How small of a mob does it take to overcome the "fear" of joe public?
I know all of these things will vary. There isn't really ONE answer.


soberups,
I think you gotta a good plan with one exception (at least I wouldn't be able to pull it off), the trailer full of fuel cans. That is just SCREAMING "GET HIM!!!!"....unless the wife is driving the van and you are riding in the trailer with a .50cal machine gun swivelling from side to side...
The thought did just occur to me, maybe it is an enclosed trailer...out of sight, out of mind....

[madmyk]

I am thinking this
painted white with some "business" graphics, couple of ladders, amber flashers.....

[soberups]

soberups,
I think you gotta a good plan with one exception (at least I wouldn't be able to pull it off), the trailer full of fuel cans. That is just SCREAMING "GET HIM!!!!"....unless the wife is driving the van and you are riding in the trailer with a .50cal machine gun swivelling from side to side...
The thought did just occur to me, maybe it is an enclosed trailer...out of sight, out of mind....

My trailer is a nondescript, beat-up looking little utility trailer. My fuel cans will be covered with a tarp, and there will be assorted camping gear and household goods on top of that. At first glance, I'm going to look like your average homeowner fleeing the disaster in a minivan. I will blend in with everybody else. I like the idea of hiding in plain sight and staying small.

[wnn]

I am thinking this
painted white with some "business" graphics, couple of ladders, amber flashers.....

Nice rig! but from what ive read on here, hopefully the need arises only from a hurricane.etc.. if not & you paint something like that white ,you might as well armour it cause someones gonna take a shot at ya I'm not trying to be a smartass but seriously that looks un/military..
think what would you not suspect,maybe paint something like that as a critter control or pest control truck..maybe even a few signs warning of reptiles/venomous snakes,ultimately its only your desicion,& just my thoughts..good luck bud
Pete

[BobS]

OK, this is going to take a while....let me start with the basics.

article (c) by RW (Bob) Sheaves, catNET, Incorporated, 2008

START-Section #17- To CAMO or not to CAMO, that is the question.

Camouflage is green, brown and black paint, right?

Nope...let's look at what the word camoflage really means to the military. In a nutshell, camouflage is used to "break up the outline of personel and materials to hinder the ememy's accurate targeting of the force". Notice this doesn't call out colors, patterns, or textures. The reason for this is psychological. Disruptive patterning takes many forms and is totally dependent on the backround of the material in this discussion-vehicles. A US Army "Woodland" pattern paint job on a vehicle or a MARPAT painjob in the desert simply does not work. Why? It is not the color's fault, because, in the proper backround, Woodland or MARPAT works exceptionally well. It is the choice of the end user that has failed, by not determining his/her needs ahead of time.

CAPTION: This image is an example of the USMC specific MARPAT (MARine PATtern) camo at a distance of 15 feet. (Hint: this AIN'T a vehicle)



CAPTION: This image is an example of the US Army Woodland camo at a distance of 15 feet.



CAPTION: M1008 in Desert Tan.

Civilian Use CAMO

Unfortunately, we are, as a group, not in the military. Many people collect mil-spec vehicles and have fun with the hobby (just take a look at"

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/

...for how crazy we all are). The general populace, derisively termed "sheeple" though, think of a guy or gal that drives around in a freshly painted CUCV as unbalanced (at best) or dangerous, at worst. They never make the connection that this is a hobby like any other. If you drive around in any kind of fatigues in a CUCV, and most sheeple will now assume you are military. Even law enforcement make the same assumptions as well as common soldiers in National Guard units and some poorly equipped line units. See:

http://www.lonestar-mvpa.org/events/2005/05_Katrina.htm

....for one man's experiences during a real emergency, using his personal M35 to help the victims of the Katrina hurricane.

This does NOT mean I endorse what this man did during a SHTF scenario. Remember the first line of this book....

"MOBILITY is invisibility"

Civilians attempting to secure their family's future by preparing a vehicle for travel to a remote site are faced with many contradictory facets of preperation. Decisions about the individual facets tend to snowball on the prepper. Make a mistake in the optimum configuration and the error will compound in unknowable ways, due to the inability to account for and prepare for ALL conditions.

CHOICE for the preperations flow from major issues to the associated details. In the choice of camouflage for a vehicle, you must decide several things:

1. Will the vehicle be used prior for normal "running around" or will it be stored for later use?
2. What terrain are you going to use the vehicle to cover?
3. Who are you going to carry inside the vehicle or on the vehicle?
4. What are you going to carry in or on the vehicle?
5. How much can you afford?

CAPTION: Which one is the military M880 Dodge truck? (Hint: they BOTH are!)

END- Section #17

I will continue this tomorrow....LOL...it's late here and I have an appointment with a dyno cell at 4:30am.

Best regards,

Bob

[wy0mn]

And all I want is a air cooled Baja bug with a skid-plate & winch... lets see, ummm, goes virtually anywhere on minimal gas, no radiator to get shot out or punctured, engine is actually in the rear!
Might pop for some Yokohamas!

[yugoshooter]

One problem I see with a camoed mil surp truck is if we have a full blown teotwaki is the desperate people thinking it is a active duty Mil truck and attacking it because they think it has food or weapons on board. There are going to be a lot of people that watched Red dawn that think they could use those tactics to gain what they need. A lot will die thinking that but most will be so desperate that they wouldn't care at that point so they come after your camo milsurp truck.