You will see much more of this.

[GreyShark]

No, Its not the same thing.

Muslims true doctrine condones and even encourages the elimination of the infidel, and encourages terrorism and rewards the terrorist with heaven and many virgins in heaven (female and male) I don't care what they say. Its in the Koran.
Christians, true Christians would never kill an abortion doctor. They would pray for him, and against what they do, but violence is not condoned in the Bible.

So, no comparison. period.

Wow. You're actually wrong on both counts. I would suggest reading more original source material and less propaganda.

Either way I think it's unwise to try and associate this particular murderer with any semitic Muslim extremist organization. I believe he is far more likely the product of radical pan-africanism or afro-centrism. You can get an introduction to their world view from this site,

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/

Here is a few of the forum's official objectives, and while they don't necessarily represent the entire movement they do represent a large portion,

As Freedom Fighters we support all People’s struggles against any and all forms of oppression, exploitation, neo-colonialism, imperialism, genocide and occupation. With this being said:

We support the resistance in Palestine!
We support the resistance in Iraq!
We support Cuba lead by Fidel!
We support Venezuela led by Hugo!
We support Zimbabwe lead by Mugabe!
We support our Chicano Warriors!
We support our Indigenous (Natives American) Warriors!
We support the Millions More Movement and any mass movement involving our People.
And most of all
We Support AfriKa And Our People's At Home And A broad Undeniable Struggle To Be Free, PERIOD!

We will promote and advance for all, understanding of our Political struggle, Cultural reorientation and Spiritual Renaissance.

http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/ta...aks-forum.html

Here is how many, though not all of them, feel you personally fit into their world view,

http://www.rbgtube.com/play.php?vid=5180

They don't all associate themselves with Islam either. Many also believe they are the real Jews.

http://www.rbgtube.com/play.php?vid=5260

I don't hold out much hope for humanity because as far as I can tell most people are stupid and belligerent. Somebody is making fortunes and amassing great power as a result of all these pointless conflicts and it sure isn't the common people of the world.

[Desert Patriot]

GreyShark, when you stated to JTClimber that he/she was wrong on both counts I hope you weren't implying that violence IS condoned in the Holy Bible. I assure you, violence is not condoned under Christian moral belief. The idea is to love all, even (especially) your enemies. Granted, in the Old Testament there were cases where God empowered individuals with the strength to defeat massive opposition forces and times where The Almighty Creator Himself rained destruction onto people. But, in the New Testament Jesus taught to love your enemy, love all people. Even as He was dying on the cross for our sins He prayed to the Holy Father to forgive those that had violently ended His life. Not trying to start a religous squable just making sure we are all on the same page and that no one gets a misconception about Christianity.

[ReverendGoo]

John 2-15

So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area....

In case you are not familiar with the passage, that is Jesus who makes the whip and uses it to drive the men out of the temple. He made a whip not flowers. That's in the new testament.

[ravingbantha]

John 2-15

So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area....

In case you are not familiar with the passage, that is Jesus who makes the whip and uses it to drive the men out of the temple. He made a whip not flowers. That's in the new testament.

Yes becuase he had to drive evil men from the area, Jesus preached love and tolerance, but knew that some people had to be delt with harshly... It also says he 'drove all from the temple area' it does not say 'he slaughtered all in the temple area'. He also made the whip from cords and not from thorns or some sort of other nasty device. It does not say he beat them or tourtured them, it simply says he drove them away, and a whip can be very effective even if it never touches a person.

I believe that particualr passage refers to Jesus entering a place of wroship and finding it corrupted and selling wares and charging entrance to worship God.

[GreyShark]

GreyShark, when you stated to JTClimber that he/she was wrong on both counts I hope you weren't implying that violence IS condoned in the Holy Bible. I assure you, violence is not condoned under Christian moral belief. The idea is to love all, even (especially) your enemies. Granted, in the Old Testament there were cases where God empowered individuals with the strength to defeat massive opposition forces and times where The Almighty Creator Himself rained destruction onto people. But, in the New Testament Jesus taught to love your enemy, love all people. Even as He was dying on the cross for our sins He prayed to the Holy Father to forgive those that had violently ended His life. Not trying to start a religous squable just making sure we are all on the same page and that no one gets a misconception about Christianity.

The whole Bible is the story of God's love and his great efforts to redeem us, not just the New Testament. If you don't want to get a misconception about Christianity it would be good to read the Bible. Among Jesus' last instructions to his followers before his arrest were,

Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Awfully odd for a pacifist, no? Of course we know Jesus was not a pacifist and did use force where he felt it was appropriate.

John 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Ravingbantha said

He also made the whip from cords and not from thorns or some sort of other nasty device.

In response to that I can only say, have you ever messed around with a whip? A whip made from cord is pretty nasty, it is fully capable of cutting you into ribbons. It certainly is worth noting that it reads "drove" and not "slaughtered" though. While "drove" can mean "cut to ribbons" and I don't think we know if it does in this particular instance, Jesus clearly was using force in proportion to the task at hand. He wasn't using overkill, he wasn't indiscriminately slaying everyone in the area in the most vicious way possible. Nevertheless it was a bad day for money changers.

We also know that Jesus' role as the Lamb of God was completed,

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

John 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

We also know that while Jesus first came as a Lamb he will return as a Lion,

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Even if you want to disassociate yourself from the Old Testament the New Testament still does not support a pacifist view Christianity. Christ himself is not a pacifist. The final book of the Bible describing the return of Jesus and establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth is not pacifist in nature, it describes violence and destruction on a massive scale along with rebirth and redemption. The Bible does not condone wanton violence for the sake of vanity, nor does it condemn necessary violence.

[ReverendGoo]

and a whip can be very effective even if it never touches a person.

I'm aware of the message that comes from the passage. My point was to answer this quote from above:

I assure you, violence is not condoned under Christian moral belief.

Jesus used violence or the threat of violence to accomplish his task in the verse I quoted or else he wouldn't have fashioned the whip in the first place.

[ravingbantha]

I'm aware of the message that comes from the passage. My point was to answer this quote from above:



Jesus used violence or the threat of violence to accomplish his task in the verse I quoted or else he wouldn't have fashioned the whip in the first place.

He uses it only when he knows no other responce will work. No matter how much you want it to happen, some people only understand violence. So when you speak to these people you have no other choice but to speak their language.

[GunsNLipstick]

I provided a polite warning on page 2.

Thread is now locked as per site rules which do not allow religious discussions.