tested our commo recently - FRS/GMRS

[DocOutlands]

Ok, first off let me point out I'm in northern Louisiana where terrain change is usually due to trees rather than hills. We have just over four acres on a dead-end road about a quarter-mile long with us near the front. Between us and the blacktop/mailboxes is enough of a rise to block LOS. What we have found out:

Our radios are VERY short-ranged. As in, far less than a mile. This holds true for FRS *and* GMRS channels. For use around the property, they are great. They even work from the mailbox up to the end of the road. Beyond that, they are shot. Also, they fail to make contact in certain directions, even if the distance involved is less. Very disappointing.

So, what radios have better reliable range than FRS/GMRS units?

[TBear574]

If you want hand held then VHF would work alot better. you could all become hams and use 2m radios, or you could look into VHF (non ham) radios. The ones i have seen do cost alot more than gmrs radios, but maybe a good investment if used alot.

[DocOutlands]

VHF non-ham - is that the MURS radios?

[TBear574]

somthing like that, MURS i think is only 2 watts.

2m ham hand held is usualy 5 watts and you can add a high gain antenna and get much better range.
FRS/GMRS radios are great but i dont like using UHF. Your signal can be blocked by just a few trees.

Do you know the power output on yours? they are making some a little more powerfull now. If your using older radios , newer ones may help.

[hiker]

I have both FRS/GMRS and MURS radios. The FRS only puts out 500 milliwatts, whereas the MURS are either 2 or 5 watts, and that is depending on which ones you get. In my area in the mountains the range of the FRS radios are about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile, and the 2 watt MURS I have have about 1 1/2 mile range. I have taken them to the coast to see how they do and the MURS do much better, about 3 miles. I agree with TBear about the Ham handheld radios. You can adjust the output from 1 to 5 watts and get upto 10 times or better the range you get now with the FRS radios. The test for a Tech license is not that hard and will only cost $10 to $14 per person to take the test and you can study for the test online at http://www.qrz.com. If you are interested go to http://www.ARRL.org to find out where you can take the test locally. Believe me, you will be glad you got your Ham license for short and long distance comms. There is a lot you can do and find out using Ham radio including hurricane info and after a SHIFT situation, where it's local or nationwide you can get info off the Ham freq's.

Best of luck

[DocOutlands]

Our team already has one ham and it has been mentioned more than once that we should all get licensed for 2m usage. Based on GMRS performance, I'm beginning to think that is a REALLY good idea.

[FN64]

Doc..

Theres a ton of information online about ham radio. A lot of good stuff & unfortunately theres some bad info floating around as well. The biggest part of being a ham is understanding why things work the way they do and in other circumstances why they don't.

Also, they fail to make contact in certain directions, even if the distance involved is less.

I'm going to venture a guess here without seeing your AO the it's a matter of "signal absorption".
In dense foliage the leaves & needles on trees absorb certain frequencies. The FRS / GMRS freqs fall between 462 & 468 MHz. This is in the UHF band. These frequencies are prone to absorption. Have your buddy come by with a 2 meter, 5 watt radio & see if it improves the situation. The 2 meter band 144 to 148 Mhz is a much lower frequency range and will probably do better.
The MURS freqs are just above 2 meters and still within the VHF bands.. If 2m @ 5W works then the MURS should work nearly as well

..FN

[Christian for Israel]

if you want comms between fixed positions, consider landlines. old style rotary phones (without circuit boards) will work by connecting two or more to a 2 strand wire, even without a power source, as long as the distance doesn't exceed a few miles. with a 12v battery that can be extended up to 30 miles or more. over short distances the vibration from your voice in the mic end creates enough power to talk a few miles.

you will need to attach a power source to ring the bell at the other end however...that is what the hand crank on old phones was for, it was a small generator that sent a charge along the line to alert the operator. a battery or even the generator from a hand crank flashlight would be perfect.

the benefit of using landlines is that your comms will be secure as no one will intercept the message without tapping into the line. if the line is separate from the regular phone lines and hidden or buried that will be next to impossible. fixed position comms can be used to link areas unserviceable by radio or as part of a larger radio network.

consider this scenario. you have several OP's around the central location (house). each one is linked by a landline and each one sends out patrols with that stay within radio range of that OP. the lines all run to the comm center and are wired into a map board that has a light bulb at every OP position. when a post calls (cranks the gen on their phone) a buzzer sounds and the bulb for their position lights up, giving their location instantly. the operator can then plug his headset into that posts line and receive reports. also each OP line can have a wire with an aligator clip on the end and a post to connect it to. if one post needs direct comms with another the wires can be connected to give them this ability.

[TBear574]

LAND LINES ?!?!?! :shock:

[DocOutlands]

CFI - *thank you* for that info! I'd considered buying mil-surp field phones, but hadn't ever committed to them. Since my AO is a fixed position barring pretty much anything other than a direct hit by wildfire, tornado, or B-52's, setting up land-line commo makes sense. (not that we're abandoning radios, y'all - everything has its place)

[alpmco]

I have some FRS hand helds we use in the wood and in town. I think they were rated for 5 miles which I laughed at when I bought them thinking it was a lie. In a test I discovered they work better then CB's in the woods and in town (not downtown) they have a range of about two miles through the trees and houses. (Remember, I'm in Florida which is pretty flat.

Another option that a non ham buddy of mine used when hunting with his kids. This was before FRS radios. He had several hand held Marine radios. It never seemed to cause any problems in the woods and he said they got out about five miles or more through the trees. He never tried to see what he maximum range was.

[C-ya]

Hey all. Figured this was as good a place as any to jump in here.

alpmco, if you are not getting more than 2-5 miles with your CB, I'd suggest a better antenna. I bought a cheap Cobra 19 Ultra back in '93 and I put a cheap antenna on my car. I never understood why I couldn't talk more than 2 or 3 miles with it. Fast forward to about 2 years ago, and I tried it with a Wilson 1000. Wow! Can you say MAJOR improvement?? I knew you could! I put the radio on a power meter and it was putting out 5.5 W stock (never opened - I bought the radio new from Wally World). I was able to talk to a base station 15 miles from my house. Mobile to mobile, I was getting an easy 5 miles. I now use that radio with a Wilson Lil Wil antenna on the wife's car when we travel as I am using a new radio in my truck.

Just some food for thought. Handheld CB's are about worthless in my opinion, unless you can hook up an external antenna. Mobiles aren't much better w/o a decent antenna. If your main concern in talking to someone in your "convoy", then a short/cheap/multipurpose antenna may be fine. But if you are going to rely on a CB for SHTF comms, you'll need to do better.

Don't forget to look at SSB on CB's also. Great for getting further out there without any extra power.

FN64, I'm a ham-in-training, btw. Got a test coming up later this month that I plan on trying to attend and at least knock Tech out. I hope to be studied up enough to take General while I'm there. You've given some good info here and in other comm threads.

Thanks for letting me share my experiences.

[alpmco]

Yeah on the highway I get better distance on the CB. I have a pretty good antenna bit it is mounted on a Jeep CJ7 which is pretty poor in the ground plane department. But in the woods the RF is sucked up by the trees and the range is only about two miles.
Now the 2M rig is a different story ... mobile to mobile, simplex through the woods I have about an 8 mile range. From the woods via a repeater (Depending on the repeater I use) I have talked to another mobile about 70 miles away.