Ruggedness vs Milage

[zapthycat]

I know a lot of folks that try to get their 4x4 as off-road as possible, but in truth, what's the point of getting far out in the boonies if you don't have much gas to get back when things have settled down?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if I'm laden down with my BOB (bug out bag) then I'm not going to be in very good condition to go off roading anyways. I'm thinking more along the lines of staying on good ground. I figure if there's serious terrain that I can't get through on a normal car, I'm not going to be able to go too much farther with a 4x4.

I'd rather have a car with good gas milage than a car that car get me just a little further off road. That's my opinion.

[fourrobert13]

I have a couple of SUV's. They are set up for urban travel, but you can do mild offroading if the need arrises. By no means am I going to be able to head to the mountaians but the 4X4 gives you better traction if say you have to travel on snow and ice in the event you need to go mobile.

[MiamiARFan]

We've got two pickup trucks. They're not FWD, but they are equipped for towing. One of our contingencies if we need to get out of dodge is to take our travel trailer with us (BOT). It will provide for a self sufficient shelter with onboard food stores, water and 2 large LP Tanks. We'll also be carrying extra fuel in Gas Cans and a Honda 2000EU gennerator. Given that it's a trailer, we're kind of limited to the roads that we can take, however in S. FLA, there aren't alot of options for bugging out via the North/South routes, simply because of the geography. Both trucks have tonneau covers, but not camper tops.

Unless we have some really dire need to Bug Out, our primary plan is to bug in.

[MOlivo]

Unless we have some really dire need to Bug Out, our primary plan is to bug in.


Thas my mindset as well. I look at it this way, if I am bugging out, its going to be because my home is in such a bad situation i dont ever plan on seeing it again. My plan is to buy something (fairly soon) that is semi-offroad capeable. Im looking at a 99 Expedition (Which I like because it has tons of room, but it also has a big gas sucking motor :( ) and a 95 blazer 4x4 (Has the 4x4 advantage, but its much smaller then the expedition). I plan on keeping it for hurricane season for the most part, or in a semi serious situation where travel on the roads is more difficult because of traffic, pandimonium, whatever.

Im buying both, whichever I dont want to keep will bein the classifieds ;)

[MiamiARFan]

I'd really love to pick up one of these from [url=http://www.govliquidation.com:49024]Gov Liquidation[/url:49024]

http://www.deltaforce.net/deuce/parade1.jpg

Great BOV. Runs on Diesel, Gas, Kerosene, whatever you want to feed it. The only problem in my opinion is that it will draw ALOT of attention, not only from the others, but the .gov types too who might want to "borrow" it in a SHTF scenario.

[MOlivo]

Yeah, the law can pretty much do whatever it wants in that situation. Your BOV will be commandeered :lol:

[chicom]

Make sure your dedicated BOV is EMP proof. That would be any domestic vehicle manufactured prior to '83 ( I believe). The older the better. If anyone with the technical nohow detonates a special weapon in the upper stratosphere above the continental US, you can say nighty night to any vehicle with a microchip. Then you are reduced to foot power or possibly a dog sled on bicycle tires. ;)

[MiamiARFan]

There is a great deal of debate on the affects of EMP on vehicles, but I don't know if I want to put this to a test in a real SHTF situation. EMP Proofing a vehicle can be difficult and very costly. Best bet is older models without EFI, Electriconic ignition or Computers. Stock some spare parts (alternator, etc).

See Lights Out link in the SHTF Stories forum for a good read on EMP fallout.

[yugoshooter]

I have the best of both worlds! A 4x4 thats good on gas and tough enough to go off road. Its my 86 Subaru 4x4 wagon. I get 30+ mpg at 70 mph highway and about 25 in town. I have already had 800 pounds of stuff in it and it did just fine. You can lift them and put a tire of up to 28 inch's around. I have had mine up dirt trails and across creeks up to the head lights. Parts are easy to find and I have no ecu and can convert it to a points ignition system to protect from EMPs. You can pic a good one up for like $500 put another $400 for lift and tires and do a little work to them for a great 4x4. They even have skid plates under the engine and trans. Mine also has a 5 speed duel range 4x4 trans and transfer case that I can shift into and out of 4 wheel drive with out stopping. Just push in the clutch and pull up on the lever and your good to go!!! Goto this site to learn more http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/ these things are :apc: [url=http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/Easycz52/4849Picture_119_Large_Web_view.jpg:be6fe]http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/Easycz52/th_4849Picture_119_Large_Web_view.jpg[/url:be6fe]

[DirtPirate]

AND....the Subaru...while a Jap car (and I usually reserve comment on Jap cars)...is an excellently engineered car...easy to work on...it's almost like the engineers WANTED ther average Joe to be able to maintain them... :shock: ...if you can imagine that... ;)

I used to run our 93 AWD wagon around the forest all of the time...before I got my Jeep back on the road a few years back...

Sometimes...you just gotta get out "there" ya know?

And yeah....28 mpg with AWD and almost 300k on the clock...

I have the best of both worlds! A 4x4 thats good on gas and tough enough to go off road. Its my 86 Subaru 4x4 wagon. I get 30+ mpg at 70 mph highway and about 25 in town. I have already had 800 pounds of stuff in it and it did just fine. You can lift them and put a tire of up to 28 inch's around. I have had mine up dirt trails and across creeks up to the head lights. Parts are easy to find and I have no ecu and can convert it to a points ignition system to protect from EMPs. You can pic a good one up for like $500 put another $400 for lift and tires and do a little work to them for a great 4x4. They even have skid plates under the engine and trans. Mine also has a 5 speed duel range 4x4 trans and transfer case that I can shift into and out of 4 wheel drive with out stopping. Just push in the clutch and pull up on the lever and your good to go!!! Goto this site to learn more http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/ these things are :apc: [url=http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/Easycz52/4849Picture_119_Large_Web_view.jpg:c21d9]http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/Easycz52/th_4849Picture_119_Large_Web_view.jpg[/url:c21d9]

[cd45]

This is great, I found this place from the gun forum that I go to, and there is someone from my Subaru forum. I have 1987 GL Wagon, 5 speed with a dual range 4x4. They are great vehicles. I am glad that I found this place.

[maddawg918]

Welcome to the forum cd45.

[yugoshooter]

This is great, I found this place from the gun forum that I go to, and there is someone from my Subaru forum. I have 1987 GL Wagon, 5 speed with a dual range 4x4. They are great vehicles. I am glad that I found this place. WOW thats relay cool! :) Welcome aboard fellow Subaru and survivalist!

[soberups]

The ultimate SHTF rig...a VW Jetta TDI diesel wagon with a roof rack and a trailer hitch/utility trailer setup. Go ahead and laugh, but my Jetta gets 45 MPG. Its a diesel, which means I can run regular diesel, off-road diesel, biodiesel,kerosene, JP5 jet fuel, or, in a pinch,cooking oil cut with a little gasoline. I can scavenge fuel from farm equipment, semi trucks, construction equipment or school buses witha siphon hose. I keep 30 gallons in reserve and never let my tank get below half, which means that RIGHT NOW I could go almost 1500 miles nonstop without refueling. no its not a big bad 4x4...but that big bad 4x4 is a useless paperweight once its out of gas. Rememberthe lines after Katrina? I wont be in one.

[DirtPirate]

The ultimate SHTF rig...a VW Jetta TDI diesel wagon with a roof rack and a trailer hitch/utility trailer setup. Go ahead and laugh, but my Jetta gets 45 MPG. Its a diesel, which means I can run regular diesel, off-road diesel, biodiesel,kerosene, JP5 jet fuel, or, in a pinch,cooking oil cut with a little gasoline. I can scavenge fuel from farm equipment, semi trucks, construction equipment or school buses witha siphon hose. I keep 30 gallons in reserve and never let my tank get below half, which means that RIGHT NOW I could go almost 1500 miles nonstop without refueling. no its not a big bad 4x4...but that big bad 4x4 is a useless paperweight once its out of gas. Rememberthe lines after Katrina? I wont be in one.

A Mercedes diesel wagon would be a good compromise too...but wait until I finish my Jeep Scrambler/diesel conversion... ;)

[yugoshooter]

Some guys on my subaru board are converting a Sube to a VW diesel.That should kick ass, :P All that torque and a lite 4x4 should be intersesting. :freedom:

[wallew]

OK, I've got THREE stories to tell you folks. Two are not mine, but ONE is from a friend of mine who fled Houston when Rita was imminent and the second one is a guy who went to help a friend of his AFTER Katrina hit the Gulf Coast.

Here's the link for the SECOND story first. It gives you an idea of what the deuce is capable of. AND please realize that during SHTF, most LEO's will be attempting to save their OWN family. Ditto for military guys. Some WILL show up, but the worse it is, THE LESS people that are 'responsible' for keeping the peace will show up for work.

http://lonestar-mvpa.org/events/2005/05_Katrina.htm

My buddy bugged out of Houston and got on I-45 going north in his M109, which is a deuce with a shop van on the back. Traffic pretty much came to a slow crawl, intermittent with complete stops along the way. Call it LESS than 5 mph. He was the ONLY deuce on the road. At ANY intersection where LEO or military folks were directing traffic, they would wave him out of line and tell him the 'easiest' way to make better time.

When he finally started looking for fuel, he came across a station that still had fuel. The line for gas was three hours. NO ONE WAS AT THE DIESEL PUMPS on the other side of the station. He just rolled off road and went to the diesel pumps, pumped 40+ gallons and then went in and paid in cash. All sorts of people were pissed of at him. He told them they were more than WELCOME to put diesel in their vehicles. That shut them up fairly quickly. Plus he said everything in the 'store' that was the gas station was GONE. EVERYTHING. Magazines, food, drinks, oil, EVERYTHING was gone. So having a vehicle that can run diesel IS a good thing. Having a vehicle that can run off road, including over curbs, etc in an urban environment, is a good thing. Then add to the mix that driving a retired MILITARY vehicle, wearing military clothes, got him hints and tips from ANYONE who was directing traffic on how to avoid the problems.

Last, but not least. I have camped in the back of my deuce. IN FEBRUARY, ABOVE 9500 ft in the Rockie Mountains, with snow on the ground and the temp WELL below zero. With the rear covered with the vinyl cover and the front and rear curtains in place. One dual fuel Coleman lantern not only lit the back end very well, but warmed the inside up to almost forty degrees. it was warm enough that we ended up shedding our heavy jackets. OH, and I slept on a queen sized bed that I had slid all the way up front. I was both warm and cozy. My buddies were proving how 'tuff' they were and slept on the steel floor in their subzero sleeping bags with their sleeping pads. That turned out to be a bad choice, as the sub zero temps kept the steel floor extremely cold.

Also, I went outside once after dark with the lantern lit and could see NO light leaks at all. So it was warm AND secure by not letting any light out. Pretty kewl. In the back the dimensions are 12 ft long, 8 ft wide and 6 ft high with the vinyl top in place. I've got a buddy who slides a pop top camper in the back of his. He's drilled his uprights that allows him to raise it enough so that when he stops he can 'pop' the top of his camper. And no one ever even knows there is a full camper in the back. It's pretty kewl also. But way too much for me. His camper is one that used to reside in the back of a pickup. When the owner sold the truck, he gave my buddy the camper for free.

So there are ALL SORTS of possibilities with a deuce.

[DirtPirate]

Oh...I'd LOVE to have a Deuce....I have wanted one for years....and someday...it will be my tow rig... ;)

[yugoshooter]

At 5 mpg you can have them.

[wallew]

Yugoshooter,
I thought I had answered this one, but I'll try again. MY duece and a half got over 12 mpg. But I had made a few upgrades. First was a K&N air filter, which helped. Next was to upgrade my tires to 'Super Singles' on 22.5" 6 lug Bud wheels. I chose Michelin XDY2's (http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/tireInfo.do?tread=XDY-2)(rated for 100k miles). Once that upgrade was completed, it felt like I had 'power steering' and I did not.

So there are all sorts of ways to get good mpg on deuces. Now if it's a 5 ton, you're kinda hosed, as they get about 4 mpg. IF you are lucky.

But I'm about to get my second deuce and will start making mods as soon as I have more money, of which I have little being retired. But for my deuce, I do make sacrfices. I'll be in a Memorial Day parade tomorrow in my M1009 Blazer. Should have a great time.

[BobS]

Initial cost of the vehicle is only part of the equation. Offroad and on road mobility is the cost of ownership. In other words, what one person may do is not necessarilly in the realm of possibility for another. The M35 (and it's variants) have been variously described as the best and the worst vehicle ever designed. It's replacement in the US military, the FMTV (by Stewert and Stevenson) was designed to be a more capable vehicle in it's own right as a complete rethink of the mission of the M35 2.5Ton vehicle.

While I will not entertain a discussion of which is better (no reason to-since the point of my post has nothing to do with these individual vehicles-they are only used as examples), needless to say, BOTH have served the intended purpose with aplomb. Both have weaknesses and strengths. (If you are interested in the details of the FMTV design process-go to SteelSoldier's website and look through the FMTV section.)

Mobility is simply defined as getting to your objective as effeciently as possible, by utilizing the least TOTAL resources as possible to minimize cost. Define your requirements, THEN and ONLY THEN do you decide on a vehicle. Wallew sound like he has, intentionally or otherwise, gone through this thought process and made his decisions on what his objectives are, how to execute the plan, and how to minimize the impact of his decisions. Just getting a Subie, just because it gets good "fuel milage" is being short sighted and naive.

Yes, this comes from a person that is making my first post.....but I have been designing wheeled and tracked vehicles for various companies worldwide for over 30 years, including US, Japanese, English, German, and Italian companies....both military and civilian.

Best regards,

Bob

[soberups]

My opinion is that fuel economy and/or the ability to use a fuel other than gasoline is far more important that off-road capability.
The last thing I want to do when SHTF is to go 4-wheeling. Going off-road is a good way to break things. Any forseeable bug-out scenario for me involves, at the very worst, gravel logging roads that any vehicle with decent tires could navigate.
I remember seeing the gas lines after Katrina on TV. I can also remember the Arab oil embargo of '73, and getting up with my folks at 4AM to get in line for gas. The biggest, baddest, most well-equipped and stocked BOV is dead on the road once the fuel is gone...and if all your stuff is in it you have a real problem. If the SHTF I dont want to have to compete with 95% of the other vehicles on the road for the same fuel.

[BobS]

I am sorry, obviously I did not make my point clear. Please tell me what part of the following quote from my original statement is unclear?

Mobility is simply defined as getting to your objective as effeciently as possible, by utilizing the least TOTAL resources as possible to minimize cost. Define your requirements, THEN and ONLY THEN do you decide on a vehicle.

Best regards,

Bob

[yugoshooter]

Yugoshooter,
I thought I had answered this one, but I'll try again. MY duece and a half got over 12 mpg. But I had made a few upgrades. First was a K&N air filter, which helped. Next was to upgrade my tires to 'Super Singles' on 22.5" 6 lug Bud wheels. I chose Michelin XDY2's (http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/tireInfo.do?tread=XDY-2)(rated for 100k miles). Once that upgrade was completed, it felt like I had 'power steering' and I did not.

So there are all sorts of ways to get good mpg on deuces. Now if it's a 5 ton, you're kinda hosed, as they get about 4 mpg. IF you are lucky.

But I'm about to get my second deuce and will start making mods as soon as I have more money, of which I have little being retired. But for my deuce, I do make sacrfices. I'll be in a Memorial Day parade tomorrow in my M1009 Blazer. Should have a great time.Is that loaded or unloaded fuel mileage? Because when you put a ton of weight on them its going to drop your mpg. IMO In a teotwawki You are just asking for it because people will know that most likely you have supply's on board and try to get them. Maybe if you crawl at 15 to 20 mpg loaded you will still get 10 mpg.

[BobS]

While I will not answer directly about that particular M35, I will say, in general, the deuce gives a difference of between 1 and 3 mpg between EW and GVWR. The spread is not greater due to gearing, tire size, axle ratios, and transmission gearing.

Saying "...Maybe if you crawl at 15 to 20 mpg loaded you will still get 10 mpg..." is displaying prejudice (root of the word is "PRE JUDGING" meaning coming to conclusions before having any facts to base the conclusion on) and ignorance (meaning "a lack of understanding") about what these vehicles can do. 20mph is a LOT better than sitting dead in the road.

The other statement about what will or not occur in a certain scenario is demonstrating pure supposition and knee-jerk hatred towards someone that disagrees with you. Obviously, you did not read the link requested by wallew about what happened in New Orleans after Katrina with a privately owned deuce. To reiterate:

http://lonestar-mvpa.org/events/2005/05_Katrina.htm

Read it and learn.

[yugoshooter]

While I will not answer directly about that particular M35, I will say, in general, the deuce gives a difference of between 1 and 3 mpg between EW and GVWR. The spread is not greater due to gearing, tire size, axle ratios, and transmission gearing.

Saying "...Maybe if you crawl at 15 to 20 mpg loaded you will still get 10 mpg..." is displaying prejudice (root of the word is "PRE JUDGING" meaning coming to conclusions before having any facts to base the conclusion on) and ignorance (meaning "a lack of understanding") about what these vehicles can do. 20mph is a LOT better than sitting dead in the road.

The other statement about what will or not occur in a certain scenario is demonstrating pure supposition and knee-jerk hatred towards someone that disagrees with you. Obviously, you did not read the link requested by wallew about what happened in New Orleans after Katrina with a privately owned deuce. To reiterate:

http://lonestar-mvpa.org/events/2005/05_Katrina.htm

Read it and learn. Where do you get it was a knee jerk statement. I was giving my opinion of that scenario not because I don't like them. I would love to have one but its just IMO not a practical vehicle to have. Sure in Katrina he may have been giving free passage to where he needed to go but in a worse scenario they will be looking for vehicles like that because it says Hey look at me I have all this stuff in the back, come and get me. So before you you have a knee jerk reaction maybe you should ask me to be more clear on my statement.
To call me ignorant and prejudice is just well ignorant and prejudice now isn't it?

Either way 10 mpg IMO just dont cut it.

[BobS]

Do you understand the 6th grade level of english language I used? I did NOT call you "ignorant"...I said your STATEMENT was ignorant and even gave you the definition of the word to make sure there was no understanding.

...and is IS prejudicial to make such statements if you have no experience. An opinion is only valid with understanding all aspects and parameters.

[yugoshooter]

Do you understand the 6th grade level of english language I used? I did NOT call you "ignorant"...I said your STATEMENT was ignorant and even gave you the definition of the word to make sure there was no understanding.

...and is IS prejudicial to make such statements if you have no experience. An opinion is only valid with understanding all aspects and parameters.No experience! There ya go being prejudice again and calling my statement ignorant is the same as calling me ignorant. I have worked on all types of vehicles for 36 years now so hows that for experience! So what ever dude you don't know me and IMO your off to a bad start on this board.

"Do you understand the 6th grade level of English language I used"

So your calling me uneducated without even knowing me? How ignorant is that. We are not here to argue opinions we are here to discuss what we feel is the best way to survive!

[BobS]

36 years of changing oil doesn't make you knowledgable about vehicles.

Your expressed lack of education about english language syntax also lables you as uneducated. If you cannot differentiate between someone calling you names and someone criticizing your attitude towards another dictates one judgement....you would be far better served in some other role than "Super Moderator"

I thought this was an intelligent board with people like Wallew on here. Obviously I was mistaken. There are far more tin hats and poofters that think they know what they are doing...good luck- you will need it, as you surely do NOT have the knowledge or judgement to exist long term.

[yugoshooter]

36 years of changing oil doesn't make you knowledgable about vehicles.

.Yea OK if thats what you want to think then go ahead because I have changed more engines in one year then you have in a lifetime. I can change the engine in my car in three hours, can you say that. As for my education you are right I never made it past 10th grade because of a learning disorder so now your making fun of a disabled person. When it comes to life I have more experience in survival in my pinkie then you do in your elitist attitude of a brain! If you cant abide by the rules that say
6.) Repeatedly attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response will not be tolerated. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner. We're adults here, so act like it.


Then maybe you should go elsewhere!

[MOlivo]

Sorry that our board is full of "tin hats and poofters", and that we all aren't part of the super-intelligent segment of the human species that you fancy yourself on. Let me help you to the door...

[soberups]

Sorry that our board is full of "tin hats and poofters", and that we all aren't part of the super-intelligent segment of the human species that you fancy yourself on. Let me help you to the door...
I wasnt familiar with the term "poofter" so I looked it up...and found that it is Australian slang for "fag" or "queer". So apparently, we are a bunch of paranoid homosexuals because we dont all agree that a deuce-and-a-half makes an ideal BOV. Whatever.

[wallew]

Yugo,
BOTH LOADED AND UNLOADED. That's the good part of a diesel. Whatever it's mpg is, that's pretty much what it will stay. Unless you SEVERELY overload one. Say like 20 tons, which my truck couldn't carry. Maybe in a 5 ton. But THEY only get 5 mpg as it is. Hence their ability to carry up to 20 tons otr.

Now, you first said the deuce would get 5 mpg. That's incorrect. Most deuces running regular NDC's will get 10 mpg loaded or unloaded. That's it. BUT, you can do little things that can increase it by as much as 30 - 40%. From different tires, better intake/exhaust, different lubrications, driving habits and not over loading it so severely.

Oh, I'm no so worried about someone seeing my truck and thinking they can 'get some'.

Because they would be fighting a force multiplier that most have no idea about. Go back and reread my first post in this thread. I gave THREE specific instances. One of which was mine that occurred ABOVE 9000 ft sea level. At BELOW ZERO TEMPS with snow on the ground.

None of these conditions you seem to take into account. Also read about my buddy bugging out from Rita. Then reread the Katrina story.

You will find these to be the toughest BOV's out there. Oh, we've owned Subies for the past five years. Good around town vehicles, but they can't carry a load worth a damn. At least not the load WE have.

[yugoshooter]

Yugo,
BOTH LOADED AND UNLOADED. That's the good part of a diesel. Whatever it's mpg is, that's pretty much what it will stay. Unless you SEVERELY overload one. Say like 20 tons, which my truck couldn't carry. Maybe in a 5 ton. But THEY only get 5 mpg as it is. Hence their ability to carry up to 20 tons otr.

Now, you first said the deuce would get 5 mpg. That's incorrect. Most deuces running regular NDC's will get 10 mpg loaded or unloaded. That's it. BUT, you can do little things that can increase it by as much as 30 - 40%. From different tires, better intake/exhaust, different lubrications, driving habits and not over loading it so severely.

Oh, I'm no so worried about someone seeing my truck and thinking they can 'get some'.

Because they would be fighting a force multiplier that most have no idea about. Go back and reread my first post in this thread. I gave THREE specific instances. One of which was mine that occurred ABOVE 9000 ft sea level. At BELOW ZERO TEMPS with snow on the ground.

None of these conditions you seem to take into account. Also read about my buddy bugging out from Rita. Then reread the Katrina story.

You will find these to be the toughest BOV's out there. Oh, we've owned Subies for the past five years. Good around town vehicles, but they can't carry a load worth a damn. At least not the load WE have.I hear you on them being good for some reasons but IMO they just are not practical because of the fuel usage they have. I would worry more about Gov troops in a martial law situation then civilians when driving something that big that says hey lots of guns in here. They will take one look at my beat up old sube and say that guy aint got a pot to piss in. I was never knocking them just saying they stick out like a sore thumb. As for the subies not being able to hold a load they are rated for 1000 pounds carry weight So 1000 pounds and 25 mpg ain't to shabby. I will admit any sube built after 95 are not that tough but still very dependable. I have also slept in my sube when it was below zero and only needed a large candle in a coffie can to keep the whole car warm. Hey to each his own right!

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/cool/cool0043.gif (http://www.scottishpower.co.uk)

[Christian for Israel]

one consideration that hasn't been mentioned and that i feel is the most important, especially as it relates to fuel, is the multi fuel engine available in many deuce-and-a-halfs. consider an engine that can burn veggie oil, biodiesel, used motor oil, hydraulic fluid, tranny fluid, gasoline, jet fuel, kerosene, diesel or any combination of them? personally, i'd call it the PERFECT bug out vehicle, especially since many of these fuels can be gotten for free. also installing a couple hundred gallon fuel tanks is simplicity on such a vehicle.

[soberups]

...I would worry more about Gov troops in a martial law situation then civilians when driving something that big that says hey lots of guns in here. They will take one look at my beat up old sube and say that guy aint got a pot to piss in. I was never knocking them just saying they stick out like a sore thumb...]
+1....the nail that sticks out is the one that gets the hammer. A big part of surviving a SHTF will be the ability to blend in and stay small. Hauling 10 tons of gear is nice but once you run out of gas you have 10 tons of gear in the middle of the road and no way to move it. Sometimes its better to travel light. Sometimes less is more.

[BobS]

one consideration that hasn't been mentioned and that i feel is the most important, especially as it relates to fuel, is the multi fuel engine available in many deuce-and-a-halfs. consider an engine that can burn veggie oil, biodiesel, used motor oil, hydraulic fluid, tranny fluid, gasoline, jet fuel, kerosene, diesel or any combination of them? personally, i'd call it the PERFECT bug out vehicle, especially since many of these fuels can be gotten for free. also installing a couple hundred gallon fuel tanks is simplicity on such a vehicle.

Not so much any combination, but rather various mixtures. See the TM for the individual truck to see the specifics. If you need the info, I can dig it up for you.

[Warrior Monk]

Deuce and a half. Ooh-Rah! The mileage is not so bad when you run off road diesel. It helps to be pulling a dozer, mark it up as a fire response rig, and bug out!

[wallew]

I hear you on them being good for some reasons but IMO they just are not practical because of the fuel usage they have. I would worry more about Gov troops in a martial law situation then civilians when driving something that big that says hey lots of guns in here. They will take one look at my beat up old sube and say that guy aint got a pot to piss in. I was never knocking them just saying they stick out like a sore thumb. As for the subies not being able to hold a load they are rated for 1000 pounds carry weight So 1000 pounds and 25 mpg ain't to shabby. I will admit any sube built after 95 are not that tough but still very dependable. I have also slept in my sube when it was below zero and only needed a large candle in a coffie can to keep the whole car warm. Hey to each his own right!

Yugo,
Again you apparently did NOT read what I posted. When troops see the 'big green iron' rolling towards them. GUESS WHAT? Your thought process is 180 degrees off. ALL COPS AND ALL MILITARY FOLKS ARE CONDITIONED TO THINK IT'S ONE OF THEM, THEREFORE YOU ARE ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS.

You come across a military Humvee parked across the road with two soldiers, I PROMISE they will stop every civilian vehicle that comes their way and tell them to find a different way to get where they are going. They will GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HELP SOMEONE WHO IS 'LIKE THEM'. Especially when you are dressed EXACTLY LIKE THEY ARE. The guy who went to New Orleans said it this way:

Remember, I am in an obvious military vehicle albeit retired from current inventories, in uniform and armed. Over the next couple of days I was waved through more than 100 roadblocks, even those manned by regular Army Military Police

GET IT?

Nah, I doubt it.

But don't take my word for it. Go read the account for the guy who went to NO right after Katrina. Even though he was retired military, he went onto a military base and they GLADLY fixed several of his flat tires and the issues he had with his overheating engine. It's not on the story now, as he's modified it to say:

I left Tracy and headed to Keesler Air Force Base to see if I could get any help with the deuce, which had started to severely overheat. Because of the fear of federal prosecution, and because of future security considerations, I cannot relate that part of the story. I will only say that the military men and women were wonderful to me, and helped me beyond the call of duty.

And you slept in the back of your subie? And used a candle to warm it? Were you ABOVE 9000 ft sea level when you did that? Was there more than a foot of snow on the ground?

REALLY?

Where was the 1000 lbs of stuff you are going to bug out with when you were sleeping in the back? Mine would have been right there with me. Yours would have been OUTSIDE your vehicle, getting snowed on.

Sorry Yugo, but that subie is gonna leave you stuck in traffic as THOUSANDS of civilians attempt to do the same thing you are doing. Like you said, I'm one or two trucks - or maybe a full convoy of military vehicles, depending on how many of my buddies go with me. Every single one of us has 'the military look'. You know, short hair, military uniforms, a LOT of military comm stuff, military style weapons, etc.

And if you own one of these trucks and HAVE NOT stocked up on fuel in advance, then you WILL be left behind. But all the folks I KNOW, stock fuel ALL THE TIME. My duece will carry 100 gallons in two saddle tanks, plus another 150 gallons of fuel in barrels. That gives me a MINIMUM AO of 2500 miles at the 'measly' 10 mpg. During a true SHTF scenario, money will be pretty much useless, so I have stored my fuel IN ADVANCE. Have you?

How much gas do you store for that 25 mpg subie you are so high on? You will need to have 100 gallons to match my AO that I can carry in my deuce and it won't effect my mpg.

Guess what? Storing that much fuel, will cut your ability to carry your bug out stuff DOWN TO 200 lbs. Fuel weighs approximately 8 lbs per gallon. 100 gallons at 8 lbs per gallon is 800 lbs. Minus your subies ability to carry ONLY 1000lbs, dude you are either going to be able to go the 2500 miles distance OR carry lots of food and other stuff. Or some trade off in between.

Not good having to decide if you will have enough fuel to get where you are going and THEN still be able to operate your vehicle once you get there. OR decide to barely get there and have some food to eat once you get there.

Plus you seem to NOT take into account that everyone else will be 'bugging out' and you will be going about 5 mph. While that improves your mpg, but makes arriving at your BOL a lot longer than you originally figured. Many people ran out of fuel when they bugged out of Houston, fleeing Hurricane Rita. That's in the story about my buddy who did it in his M109 deuce.

Again, storing fuel is just another 'brick' in the wall of preplanning. If you don't do so, you WILL find yourself wishing you had. It's like storing all sorts of food, but find when you get to your BOL you have no way to open all those cans and no way to cook the contents because you didn't figure that into your overall plan.

If you think you are gonna just toss your stuff in the back of your subie and diddie mau out to your BOL without running into hundreds if not thousands of other people doing the same thing, you either live on an island by yourself, or you are severely mistaken.

[Father Time]

In a true shtf senario a big truck hauling stuff across country will be a big fat target and thats it. It won't even be able to outrun anyone trying to shoot it to bits.

And assuming that just because your in a Deuce and a half you will be waved through check points is foolish. In a true shtf senario everyone WILL be stopped at checkpoints and the first thing they will ask is "where did you get the truck"

[soberups]

Like it or not, a deuce-and-a-half simply is not an option for most people. I cant afford to buy one, I can't afford to buy fuel for one and I dont have anywhere to park one. And even if I could, I am not going to assume that having one will let me run roadblocks and get "special treatment" from LEO's and military just because some guy posts a story on the Internet saying it happened to him after Katrina.
A Subaru...or a minivan...or any other "normal' vehicle with a 1,000 lb weight limit can double or even triple its cargo capacity by towing a utility trailer. I already have a trailer, and enough fuel in cans to let me take my van AND my car about 1,500 miles. And I can do all of that without drawing unwanted attention to myself.

[yugoshooter]

Yugo,
Again you apparently did NOT read what I posted. When troops see the 'big green iron' rolling towards them. GUESS WHAT? Your thought process is 180 degrees off. ALL COPS AND ALL MILITARY FOLKS ARE CONDITIONED TO THINK IT'S ONE OF THEM, THEREFORE YOU ARE ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS.

You come across a military Humvee parked across the road with two soldiers, I PROMISE they will stop every civilian vehicle that comes their way and tell them to find a different way to get where they are going. They will GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HELP SOMEONE WHO IS 'LIKE THEM'. Especially when you are dressed EXACTLY LIKE THEY ARE. The guy who went to New Orleans said it this way:

Remember, I am in an obvious military vehicle albeit retired from current inventories, in uniform and armed. Over the next couple of days I was waved through more than 100 roadblocks, even those manned by regular Army Military Police

GET IT?

Nah, I doubt it.

But don't take my word for it. Go read the account for the guy who went to NO right after Katrina. Even though he was retired military, he went onto a military base and they GLADLY fixed several of his flat tires and the issues he had with his overheating engine. It's not on the story now, as he's modified it to say:

I left Tracy and headed to Keesler Air Force Base to see if I could get any help with the deuce, which had started to severely overheat. Because of the fear of federal prosecution, and because of future security considerations, I cannot relate that part of the story. I will only say that the military men and women were wonderful to me, and helped me beyond the call of duty.

And you slept in the back of your subie? And used a candle to warm it? Were you ABOVE 9000 ft sea level when you did that? Was there more than a foot of snow on the ground?

REALLY?

Where was the 1000 lbs of stuff you are going to bug out with when you were sleeping in the back? Mine would have been right there with me. Yours would have been OUTSIDE your vehicle, getting snowed on.

Sorry Yugo, but that subie is gonna leave you stuck in traffic as THOUSANDS of civilians attempt to do the same thing you are doing. Like you said, I'm one or two trucks - or maybe a full convoy of military vehicles, depending on how many of my buddies go with me. Every single one of us has 'the military look'. You know, short hair, military uniforms, a LOT of military comm stuff, military style weapons, etc.

And if you own one of these trucks and HAVE NOT stocked up on fuel in advance, then you WILL be left behind. But all the folks I KNOW, stock fuel ALL THE TIME. My duece will carry 100 gallons in two saddle tanks, plus another 150 gallons of fuel in barrels. That gives me a MINIMUM AO of 2500 miles at the 'measly' 10 mpg. During a true SHTF scenario, money will be pretty much useless, so I have stored my fuel IN ADVANCE. Have you?

How much gas do you store for that 25 mpg subie you are so high on? You will need to have 100 gallons to match my AO that I can carry in my deuce and it won't effect my mpg.

Guess what? Storing that much fuel, will cut your ability to carry your bug out stuff DOWN TO 200 lbs. Fuel weighs approximately 8 lbs per gallon. 100 gallons at 8 lbs per gallon is 800 lbs. Minus your subies ability to carry ONLY 1000lbs, dude you are either going to be able to go the 2500 miles distance OR carry lots of food and other stuff. Or some trade off in between.

Not good having to decide if you will have enough fuel to get where you are going and THEN still be able to operate your vehicle once you get there. OR decide to barely get there and have some food to eat once you get there.

Plus you seem to NOT take into account that everyone else will be 'bugging out' and you will be going about 5 mph. While that improves your mpg, but makes arriving at your BOL a lot longer than you originally figured. Many people ran out of fuel when they bugged out of Houston, fleeing Hurricane Rita. That's in the story about my buddy who did it in his M109 deuce.

Again, storing fuel is just another 'brick' in the wall of preplanning. If you don't do so, you WILL find yourself wishing you had. It's like storing all sorts of food, but find when you get to your BOL you have no way to open all those cans and no way to cook the contents because you didn't figure that into your overall plan.

If you think you are gonna just toss your stuff in the back of your subie and diddie mau out to your BOL without running into hundreds if not thousands of other people doing the same thing, you either live on an island by yourself, or you are severely mistaken. I have 50 miles to my BOL and its all on old logging roads that a big truck would have to stop and cut overhanging trees and trees that are laying over sideways out of the way. Some spots are barely wide enough to get a 4 wheeler through but my sube fits just fine. I do have fuel at my BOL but doubt I will need it because at 15 to 20 mph I will get 40 mpg and wont need it because at 40 mpg and a 16 gallon tank gives me over 600 miles before I need fuel. Like I said in my last post, To each his own and in my area my sube or a real small truck is best because of the thick forest I live in. Old sube wagons are tougher then you think and are classified as a light truck. I have what I have and it will work for me just fine because I know what it can and can not do. Where you live your truck just might be fine but not where I live. Here is a good Video for those whom doubt how tough an old school sube really is. I would never drive mine that hard in a BO situation but it gives the general idea as what they can withstand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Laeno8Z600&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYO8meFJzP8&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3bGrer-UK8
I know it don't compare to a 6x but still not bad.
As I said in my last post, to each his own.

[wallew]

Soberups, Yugo and FT,

I've got to offer you my thanks. When I passed out a printout of this particular thread, those in attendance couldn't stop laughing. About the only comment that I can pass on by our members was this.

"Pretty impressive insight from people that don't know our AO, don't know our BOR's and don't know our MOS's." EVERYBODY cracked up at that one.

So thanks for making a very serious group of people see the lighter side of preparations and how many people think they know so much, yet actually know so little.

So again, THANKS. From our whole group.

[yugoshooter]

Soberups, Yugo and FT,

So thanks for making a very serious group of people see the lighter side of preparations and how many people think they know so much, yet actually know so little.



.So you are saying that just because we don't agree with you we know so little? Just asking! So since you don't know our situations we will agree to disagree.

[Father Time]

I'm sorry you don't or can't see the forest for the tree's

I was laughing myself when you said that because your in a Deuce you would automaticaly get waved through checkpoints and get mechanical aid from the military/national gaurd

you are making choices based on assumptions and wishful thinking... all I have to say in response is GOOD LUCK WITH THAT

[BobS]

My main point for all this is simple....look closely at your PERSONAL requirements, then use ALL available referances to judge what you need to do. The military has written all these manuals for a reason and you have ALL paid for them with your tax dollars. Think of it this way...the military manuals are a great big damn book on how to build a civilization. Not saying they are right or wrong, but these books contain the accumulated knowledge of years of experience in one referance guide. Vehicles, buildings, security, farming (yes there are manuals on this...hehehe)....almost every concievable subject has information written about "how to do it".

If nothing else, these are just more "tools" in your survival "toolchest".

Best regards,

Bob

[MOlivo]

*sigh*...Do I have to put you kids in seperate rooms? :D This thread has definately run its course.