CJ Jeep alcohol conversion

[E`omer]

I need some technical details for story writing .
How would the heroes convert an old CJ over to alcohol fuel ?

[hitech_hick]

Did a little reading up on it, most of it should be carb work. I have read about the corrosiveness of alcohol, and most suggest new fuel lines and a new tank, such as a poly fuel cell. http://alcoholcanbeagas.org/site/node/360



hick

[BobS]

I need some technical details for story writing .
How would the heroes convert an old CJ over to alcohol fuel ?

"What are you trying to do?" is the first question you have to ask. This means are you going to run 100% ethanol or methanol permanently, to the exclusion of gasoline, or are you going to try to run whatever is available (completely different approaches).

"Do you want to convert a computer controlled engine or a carburated engine without a computer?

"Is this going to be a stick or an automatic transmission equipped engine?"

..etc....

If you want a reliable conversion, it costs to do it correctly. Otherwise, you can go cheep and hack 'n whack it together and it will sorta' run for a while.

Best regards,

Bob

(PS- I do this kind of thing for a living and have for over 30 years...just FYI)

[E`omer]

The characters have an old CJ-7 they need to run off home made alcohol . I believe it has old point type ignition and manual stick shift . They are not looking for great performance .

[yugoshooter]

Hope this helps. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_drane.html#ch2

[E`omer]

Thanks for link .
To me it looks like the major challenge for the characters would be preheating the alcohol for cold weather operation .

[BobS]

Thanks for link .
To me it looks like the major challenge for the characters would be preheating the alcohol for cold weather operation .That is one of the minor problems. Alcohol is also a solvent-dissolving any rubber components in the system (flexible fuel lines, accellerator pump diaphrams, mechanical fuel pump diaphrams-just as an example), corrosive to certain metals (aluminum and "potmetal" -otherwise known as zinc diecast -parts like carb bodies) not properly plated. Also, alcohol has far less heat energy than gasoline, leading to high consumption (roughly 1/3 less fuel economy as a minimum), stumbling (poor combustion), uneven idle speed (high iginition temps and lower fuel volitility and poor vaporization).....

That does not mean that there are not ways to fix these issues...only that backyard hacks ain't gonna get it done. Not for any appreciable length of time. Short term use however, is another kettle of mash.....in other words, if it's a case of moving or not moving-fine, for short term use it can be done, but it will not be effecient, nor will it work for long. Long term, unmodified engine use ain't gonna happen.

To confirm these comments- take a serious look at the parts in a fuel system that had to be changed for E10 (10 percent ethanol mixed with gasoline) fuel available for many years now from pure gasoline. Nitrile flexible synthetics, EDPM flexible synthetics, and hardcoat anodizing for aluminum, increasing use of stainless steel components, all among other items. Now, take a close look at what is done for so-called "flex-fuel" engines capable of using E85 (85 percent ethanol) mixed with gasoline. In addition to the above changes, spray pattern changes to the fuel injectors, fuel rails, different sensors that can identify the percentage of alcohol in the fuel by the capacitance of the liquid flowing through it, computer controlled high lead timing, multiple spark discharge ignition systems, increased or variable compression ratios, etc.


Best regards,

Bob

[soberups]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt Henry Ford's Model T the original dual-fuel vehicle? I recall reading that it could be run on either gasoline or alcohol, the logic being that the farmers of that era would want the ability to grow and distill their own fuel.

[BobS]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt Henry Ford's Model T the original dual-fuel vehicle? I recall reading that it could be run on either gasoline or alcohol, the logic being that the farmers of that era would want the ability to grow and distill their own fuel.It was, BUT it did not work well at all. The Model T was the reason gasoline took over as the primary fuel for automobiles (both cars and trucks).

From the early testing, the Model T could also run on a mix of naptha, lamp oil, and kerosene. However, the "T" did not run very well on any of them (except pure gasoline of the time...at an octane rating of about 75, where today's worst octane is 82). A continuous diet of ethanol would destroy the fuel system in as little as 6 months (at the time, less than 1000 miles equivenancy). The fuel system would literally melt away, including the zinc carb body, and all the rubber (natural rubber at the time) lines.

Best regards,

Bob

[yugoshooter]

BOBs. Do you have any knowledge of kerosene engines from the early teens. I went to a sawmill and they had a one lung engine that ran on kero.

[BobS]

BOBs. Do you have any knowledge of kerosene engines from the early teens. I went to a sawmill and they had a one lung engine that ran on kero.
hehehe...just a little.

There were 2 basic designs, the Lister CS and the earlier Petter design (1917-1923 for the original mag fired gasoline and "vaporized oil" -i.e. kerosene- versions). See:

http://www.listeroid.com/

from the listed site:

...The listeroid single cylinder engine weighs around 700 lbs and produces 6 HP at 650 rpm and 8 HP at 850 rpm. The listeroid twin cylinder engine weighs around 1300lbs and produces 12 HP at 650 rpm and 16 HP at 850 rpm. These engines are for stationary use only...

Also see:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/technical/petter.htm

for info on the Petter design.

On a personal note-both are really cool designs to play with...they are slow speed and generally unbreakable, unless you do something really REALLY silly with them (like turbocharge them-don't ask how I know....LOL).

Best regards,

Bob

[yugoshooter]

Thanks Bobs that was informative. The one I seen had a spark plug and ran like a gas engine not a diesel. The one I seen The cylinder was 7 feet long by 2 feet around and had a flywheel about 8 feet around and ran as a hit and miss engine.

[yugoshooter]

OK I got the info on the engine I was talking about. Its called a witte circa 1914 and was built in the Kansas city Iron works. It is a very low compression 3 to 1 and does fire with spark. Sorry I jacked the thread.

[BobS]

Cool! I have never seen a Witte! Will have to do some research after work.

THANKS!!

Best as always,

Bob