PDA

View Full Version : Democrats See a Need for Further Economic Stimulus


Howlingwolf
07-16-2008, 12:36 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/business/economy/16stimulus.html?_r=1&ref=washington&oref=slogin

Democrats See a Need for Further Economic Stimulus
July 16, 2008

Many economists have concluded that a second dose of government stimulus spending is required to prevent a broad economic unraveling and provide relief to millions of Americans grappling with joblessness, plunging home prices and tight credit.

Democratic leaders in Congress have already begun fashioning a package of proposed measures, but on Tuesday, President Bush and the Federal Reserve chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, both pronounced such action premature.

“Our economy has demonstrated remarkable resilience,” President Bush said at a morning news conference, even as he acknowledged that growth had been “slower than we would have liked.”

Mr. Bush emphasized that the package of stimulus measures adopted in February — $100 billion in income tax rebates to households this year, and $52 billion in tax cuts for businesses — has not been fully distributed.

“We ought to see how the first one works,” Mr. Bush said. “Let it run its course. I’m an optimist.”

Debate about a second package of stimulus measures has percolated in Washington for weeks as unemployment has climbed and housing prices have fallen. But the prospect of another surge of government largess has taken on urgency in recent days amid worry about the health of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which own or guarantee roughly half of the nation’s $12 trillion in mortgages.

On Tuesday, Nancy Pelosi of California, the speaker of the House, and other House Democrats met with economists to draft another stimulus package, saying it was likely to include spending for roads, bridges, schools and other public facilities, as well as aid for states confronting smaller tax revenues in the face of the housing downturn.

“This is a serious situation,” said Lawrence H. Summers, a former Treasury secretary in the Clinton administration who attended the meeting, according to Bloomberg News. “We are in much more danger of responding inefficiently than in responding excessively.”

In an interview last week, the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, said it would be “really hard” to get a package put together before the August recess, indicating that the issue was unlikely to gain momentum before the fall.

The White House and Congressional Republicans maintain that the best way to reinvigorate the economy is to adopt legislation to limit home foreclosures and expand domestic production of oil.

“Those will do more than any $300 you might send out to the taxpayers,” said Senator Johnny Isakson, Republican of Georgia.

Even as Mr. Bernanke, the Fed chairman, said it was too early to discuss another round of stimulus, he lent credence to the gathering sense that the economy appears to be deteriorating more deeply than policy makers had feared, as he testified before the Senate banking committee. Rising prices for food and gasoline have exacerbated tight credit and falling home prices to crimp household spending, he said.

Though the Fed has lowered interest rates aggressively in a bid to spur the economy, Mr. Bernanke said growth would remain “appreciably below its trend rate” for the rest of the year.

“The economy continues to face numerous difficulties,” he said.

New evidence of trouble emerged Tuesday when the government released data showing that retail sales grew by a scant 0.1 percent in June over the previous month — only one-fourth the increase economists had expected — in a potential sign that the effect of the rebate checks is already wearing off.

The Labor Department reported that prices paid by producers climbed 1.8 percent in June, and 9.2 percent over the last year — the biggest 12-month jump in more than a quarter-century.

“If we don’t have another stimulus package, that means serious hardship for a lot of people,” said Graciela Chichilnisky, an economist at Columbia University. “All the large industries will shrink operations and lay people off. A lot of people will lose jobs. This is not a typical downturn.”

But as Congress debates whether to send another rush of public money surging through the economy, the politics appear nettlesome — particularly in the thick of a presidential election campaign that may well be decided on economic ground.

Even if consensus eventually settles behind another round of stimulus, what specific measures it should include could be especially difficult to resolve. How to generate the swiftest bang for the buck is a subject of fierce debate among economists. In Washington, the subject trips deep partisan divisions — a fact that President Bush underscored at his news conference.

“If the Democratic leaders had their way in Congress, they would raise taxes, which would be the absolute wrong thing to do,” Mr. Bush said.

Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, last month proposed a $50 billion package of stimulus measures — $30 billion in fresh tax rebates, $10 billion in aid to states, and $10 billion to help families stave off the loss of homes to foreclosure.

The state money could be used to finance infrastructure projects to generate jobs, said Mr. Obama’s economic policy adviser, Jason Furman.

“We have a major collapse in the labor market, especially for men without high school degrees, a lot of whom have historically been employed in construction,” Mr. Furman said.
Senator Obama has called on his Republican rival, Senator John McCain of Arizona, to join in support. Mr. McCain has declined to embrace the package, though a campaign spokesman said he still may. But Mr. McCain’s chief domestic policy adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, last week disparaged the largest piece of Mr. Obama’s proposal — more tax rebates.

“The problems facing this economy are pretty easy to identify,” Mr. Holtz-Eakin said in an interview. “Energy prices are high and rising. Writing checks doesn’t do anything to solve that problem.”

Mr. McCain has called for a temporary rollback of gasoline taxes, an idea spurned by Mr. Obama and many economists as encouraging consumers to buy more gas, sending prices higher.

Mr. McCain’s economic adviser also rejected another idea that has become a centerpiece of Mr. Obama’s stimulus thinking — financing large infrastructure projects.

“That’s not timely and quick,” Mr. Holtz-Eakin said. He offered as a better course lowering corporate taxes and making President Bush’s larger tax cuts permanent.

Indeed, the policy prescriptions of Mr. McCain’s chief economic adviser were challenged by another economist on the McCain campaign, Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com.

A paper Mr. Zandi prepared this year concluded that, within the first year of enactment, increased infrastructure spending and aid to states generate roughly four times as much economic growth as making the president’s tax cuts permanent, cutting corporate taxes or allowing businesses to write off new investments more quickly.

“Everyone agrees that we need jobs, and everyone also agrees that infrastructure is one of our most pressing needs,” Mr. Zandi said in an interview last week. “If we can combine stimulus with infrastructure, I think that’s great.”

Above all, Mr. Zandi said, it was now imperative the government deliver some sort of new stimulus.

“The problems plaguing the economy seem entrenched,” he said. “The economy could spiral even further down if you don’t try to stem that.”

The Treasury Department has already distributed nearly $92 billion of the promised $100 billion in tax rebates. This surge of cash has landed in cash registers, sparing some jobs, say economists. But it has neither enticed companies to hire, nor persuaded banks to lend to any significant degree. As the effects wear off — perhaps sooner than later — most experts expect the economy will pull back and remain weak into next year.

If they do assent to another stimulus package, Republicans are inclined to push for more tax cuts for businesses, an approach that draws skepticism from some economists.

“When businesses can’t sell what they’re selling now, they don’t have much of an incentive to invest in new plants,” said Chad Stone, chief economist for the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities in Washington, a liberal policy institute.

Others say the measures being discussed are mere tinkering in the face of a crisis that can be solved only by injecting banks with substantial money. Until their balance sheets are restored, bankers will continue to be tight with their dollars, starving the economy of investment, said Vincent R. Reinhart, formerly an economist at the Federal Reserve and now a resident scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. The government must hand some $300 billion to major banks, he argues, recovering the money as their business improves.

“It’s really unpalatable, but it’s the bucket with the least holes,” Mr. Reinhart said. “All this other stuff is addressing the manifestations of the problem, rather than the problem itself.”

Gunfixr
07-16-2008, 04:46 PM
It's kind of funny that Obama would put forth any type of tax rebates when his plan is to tax us right out of existence when/if he becomes President.

kowalski
07-16-2008, 05:40 PM
In a way this fits the liberal agenda. A large number of voters will get small payments from the government that are basically paid for by a much smaller group of voters.

The more people getting cash and government services without paying the real cost of those benefits, mean more voters that will gladly support the goverment taking over whatever part of the economy it wants next.

Some interesting statistics:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/23319.html.

In 1999, about 30 million tax filers had no income tax liability after taking advantage of their credits and deductions. By 2006, the number of non-payers had grown to nearly 44 million, one-third of all income tax filers.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, in 2005, the top 20 percent of households paid 86.3 percent of income taxes while the bottom 80 percent paid a collective 13.7 percent of the income tax burden. The top 1 percent of households paid 38.8 percent of income taxes.

Looking at all federal taxes, in 1990, the bottom 80 percent of households paid 42 percent of the tax burden while the top 1 percent of households paid about 16 percent. By 2005, the share of all federal taxes paid by the bottom 80 percent of households had fallen to 31 percent, while the share paid by the wealthiest households had risen to nearly 28 percent.

A recent Tax Foundation study found that in 2004, the nation's tax and spending policies redistributed more than $1 trillion in income from the top 40 percent of American households to the bottom 60 percent of households.

Revelation
07-16-2008, 06:23 PM
Instead of sending money to people that the government does not have why don't they lower apr rates on credit cards to help families with monthly budgets. I would love that option more. Instead of just paying a monthly minimum I could pay more of debt and try prolong my baton death march to financial bedlum.

Neckbone
07-16-2008, 11:38 PM
Why not just suspend income tax withholding until their desired amount is met? Because it does not buy votes from the gimme crowd.

Dentoro
07-17-2008, 06:40 AM
No to be a comm here in this situation, but when you have top executives making 1000's of times the average employee then maybe they should shoulder more of the taxes. Untill pay comes back in alignment for the average Joe, I believe the tax spread will only get worse. Most of us here won’t see much past the 33% mark.You can't get blood from a turnip! Germans will strike if the executive makes much more than 8x's the average employee. Here executives of companies and mutual fund managers can make hundreds of millions of dollars for driving companies in the ground (---see home depot or any bank right now) If more of that money was distributed to the employees and banked or god forbid spent like the gov wants done, do you think our country would in hurt box like it is now? In my opinion one man does not make the company…..but he can break it!

Neckbone
07-18-2008, 10:40 PM
Beware granting the state the ability to set a maximum limit on the amount you can earn.

Dentoro
07-18-2008, 11:29 PM
I didn't say I want the state to set a limit. I think it should be more of a moral limit. I think people in general should know that if you made enough money to support your great, great great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren your just pissing on your fellow man. I think that goes on often anymore without shame. Corporate business mentality is awful. If just fractions of the money would have been distributed to workers in this past 15 years of growth the outcome of this recession would have probably been more like a 50’s or 60’s style recession. You know back when unions could at least slow down corporate greed.

kowalski
07-19-2008, 02:40 AM
I think it should be more of a moral limit.

I'm getting off the tax topic here, but it can make economic sense to offer someone a cash + stock deal that results in huge compensation. The same way it can make sense to pay a quarterback $10M if he brings in a few times that in additional revenue by getting to the playoffs and selling more merchandise. The numbers are huge, but if the performance is there, it works. I don't beleive that once you go over $X or $X times minimum wage, it becomes immoral. That depends on how the money is earned or what is done with it afterwards.

Working in Silicon Valley I might also have a different perspective. The founder of the company I work for had a great idea, but like most of us, not enough cash to make it work. No bank will make a loan based only on a good idea. VERY rich venture capitalists took the risk and provided the money needed for the company to have a chance. Fast forward 9 years and a few hundred people in 2 states have good paying jobs, health insurance, etc. And yes, the founder/CEO's share of the company is now well into the 8 figure $ range.

The last company I worked for needed a second round of funding to survive, but a well known investment bank backed out of the deal after 9/11. The CEO told everyone that if shutting down was necessary they'd get 60 days advance notice. He then covered the payroll ($300k+/month) from his personal account while looking for new financing. After about 4 months a buyer for the company was found and he got most of his loan paid back, but it was far from a sure thing. If he had declined the huge compensation package from his prior company more people would have been unemployed, not less.

Whether it's funding start-ups, founding charitable organizations, or keeping Ferrari mechanics employed, the very rich play an important role in this economy. That role won't be made up by government if their money is taxed away or by us "little people" if we all somehow end up with a $500 larger year-end bonus that would have been one big fat CEO paycheck. Not that I wouldn't mind a bonus or tax rebate right about now...